>>> HELLO I'M KYLE DYER AND WELCOME TO COLORADO INSIDE OUT ON THIS DECEMBER 16TH, 2022.

WE HAVE A MIX OF TOPICS THAT IMPACT COLORADOANS IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

TONIGHT WE HAVE PATTY CALHOUN FOUNDER AND EDITOR OF WESTWORD.

ALSO DAVID KOPEL RESEARCH DIRECTOR WITH THE INDEPENDENCE INSTITUTE.

WE ALSO HAVE DEBBIE BROWN WITH US.

MIGRANTS CONTINUE TO COME INTO DENVER FROM THE SOUTHERN BORDER.

MORE THAN 300 MIGRANTS HAVE ARRIVED IN DENVER ALMOST THE LAST MONTH.

MORE HAVE CONTINUE TO COME IN THE DAYS SENSE.

PATTY, IT SEEMS THIS WILL CONTINUE AT A REGULAR PACE.

>> IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

COLORADO IS VERY WELCOMING TO REFUGEES IN GENERAL.

YOU WILL SEE SUCH DIVERSE POPULATION.

THIS HAS BEEN KIND OF A MEDIA BLOW UP.

90 PEOPLE GET OFF THE BUS AND SAYING FROM CENTENNIAL TOUR OF THE LIGHTS DOWNTOWN.

MANY OF THOSE MIGRANTS ARE FROM VENEZUELA.

ALL THE RUMORS THEY WERE COMING FROM MIAMI, THEY WERE BEING FLOWN HERE.

THESE PEOPLE CAME UP WITH THEIR OWN PLAN, SOME HOW TO GET HERE.

MANY OF THEM DON'T WANT TO STAY IN DENVER.

THEY ARE GOING FRIENDS, FAMILY, AND OTHER DESIGNATIONS.

YOU CAN HARDLY BLAME THEM FOR WANTING TO LEAVE.

THE CITY SEEMS TO ACCOMMODATING PEOPLE IN REC CENTERS.

PEOPLE ARE BEING VERY GENEROUS WITH CLOTHES AND OTHER THINGS FOR THE HOLIDAYS.

IT WILL NOT BE SUCH A SENSATION.

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER WE ARE ALWAYS A CITY WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING.

SOMETIMES LEGALLY, SOMETIMES NOT.

>> DAVID, THE CITY AT FIST SAID THEY ENACTED AN EMERGENCY RESPONSE WHEN THAT GROUP OF 90 ARRIVED ON THE BUS FROM TEXAS.

TOLD THE CITY AND THE STATE THAT THIS MAY BE HAPPENING, BE PREPARED.

>> THERE HAS BEEN A HUGE INCREASE INTO THE UNITED STATES UNDER THE OBAMA AND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THE TYPICAL WAS 500,000 PER YEAR.

UNDER BIDEN IS MORE THAN TWO MILLION A YEAR.

A PERSON CAN GET WELFARE PAYMENTS FROM THE GOVERNMENT.

THE EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT WHICH STARTS OFF BY MEANING YOU GET THE MONEY BACK.

IT IS REFUNDABLE, YOU GET MORE MONEY.

YOU GET BONUS PAYMENTS BY THE PEOPLE WHO DO PAY TAXES.

>> ERIC SOME PEOPLE COME TO COLORADO AND THEN LEAVE.

OTHERS ARE NOW IN THE MIX OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING WHICH WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OF.

>> CERTAINLY IT TAKES WHATEVER SOCIAL PROBLEMS IN THIS CASE DENVER HAS.

IT STRESSES THOSE SYSTEMS.

IT IS ONE OF THESE MIXED BAGS.

DENVER IS A WELCOMING CITY.

DENVER OUGHT TO BE PROUD OF THAT.

I DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT CHANGING.

YOU DON'T WANT TO BE A MAG INNOCENT CITY.

AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THE DISPARITIES THAT WE HAVE ON THE TWO SIDES OF THE BORDER, AS LONG AS LIFE IN VENEZUELA, AND MEXICO, AND NICARAGUA AND OTHER PLACES IS WHAT IT IS, THIS COUNTRY IS GOING TO BE A MAGNENT.

IMMIGRANTS ARE A NET POSITIVE IN THIS COUNTRY NOT A NET NEGATIVE.

IMMIGRATION POLICY IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN DESPERATELY NEEDED.

I WISH I COULD SAY I WAS HOPEFUL.

>> THE INFLUX OF IMMIGRANTS THIS WEEK AURORA MAYOR MIKE COFFMAN CALLED ON THE LEGISLATURE TO CREATE A LAW CANNOT TRANSPORT HOMELESS INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT THE COUNTY'S PERMISSION.

>> HE ACTUALLY LIVED AS A HOMELESS PERSON IN IMCAMPMENTS AND IN SHELTERS.

MAKE SURE THAT COUNTIES AND CITIES WORK TOGETHER KNOWING IT IS A REGIONAL APPROACH.

IT IS NOT A DENVER PROBLEM, IT IS NOT AN AURORA PROBLEM.

WE ARE IMPACTED IN TERMS OF HOMELESSNESS.

NOW THE NEW MIGRANTS COMING INTO OUR STUDIES.

AND ALSO -- I AGREE THAT MODERNIZING OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM IS PASSED DUE HAVE FAILED TO PUT SOMETHING IN PLACE THAT SOLVES THE WORK ISSUE.

WHETHER IT IS HIGH SKILL, THE CONSTRUCTION TRADES.

AT THE END OF THE DAY THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS WE SHOULD HAVE COMPASSION FOR.

HOW DO THEY FIND THEY ARE STAYING HERE?

HOW DO THEY FIND THE SERVICES THEY NEED TO LIVE THIS WINTER IN OUR STATE.

>> THANKS FOR POINTING THAT OUT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE REINTRODUCTION OF WOLVES.

THE PLAN IS OUT HOW COLORADO IS GOING TO DO THIS AND RESTORE A ONCE NATIVE SPECIES.

THIS WON'T START FOR ANOTHER YEAR.

THIS PLAN.

THIS REINTRODUCTION.

>> THE WOLVES ARE ALREADY HERE MIGRATING DOWN FROM WYOMING.

IN OCTOBER, A SMALL TASTE OF WHAT IS COMING TO COLORADO.

THIS YEAR IN IDAHO TWO WOLVES KILLED 143 SHEEP.

AT LEAST IN IDAHO, WYOMING, AND MONTANA RANCHERS CAN SHOOT WOLVES THAT ARE ATTACKING LIVESTOCK.

GOOD LUCK ON GETTING THE STATE EMPLOYEE WITH A GUN AND THE WOLF TO SHOW UP AT THE SAME TIME.

YOU CAN HIRE GUARD DOGS.

HANGING FLAGS ON FENCES THE EXPERIENCE IN OTHER STATES THAT IS NOT MUCH OF A DETERRENT WHEN IT IS NOT BACKED UP BY LETHAL FORCE.

A SPECIES THAT NEVER EXISTED IN COLORADO NATURALLY.

>> THIS IS THE FIRST VOTER APPROVED RECOVERY PLAN IN THE COUNTRY.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS INVOLVED WITH ENDANGERED SPECIES ACT.

HERE ON THE FRONT RANGE, THIS PASSED BUT NOT SO MUCH IN THE RURAL AREAS THIS WILL HAVE IMPACT.

>> YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT, KYLE.

I'M IN DENVER.

WE ARE SPENDING MORE AND MORE TIME ON GRAND COUNTY.

I RAN MY MOUTH SOME WHAT ABOUT THIS BACK DURING THE CAMPAIGN WHEN IT WAS ON THE BALLOT.

I THOUGHT IT WAS STUPID THEN.

I THINK IT IS FOLLY TO HAVE THESE KIND OF ISSUES BE SUBJECT TO A PUBLIC VOTE, IF YOU WILL, COLORADO IS OPEN ON THE BALLOT.

YOU CAN PUT MOST EVERYTHING ON THE BALLOT.

THIS IS TESTIMONY OF PEOPLE IN THE FRONT RANGE WHO WANT TO IMPOSE THIS BECAUSE THEY FEEL GOOD ABOUT THE ENDANGERED SPECIES AND THE INTRODUCTION OF WOLVES.

IF THESE WOLVES WERE BEING REINTRODUCED ABOVE BOULDER OR ABOVE EVERGREEN PUBLIC OPINION WOULD BE DIFFERENT THAN IT IS RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF MIND.

YOU HAVE THE CONSERVATION FORCES OBJECTING TO SOME OF THESE NEW RULES.

FOR WHATEVER REASON IT IS A MESS.

IT IS A MESS OF THE VOTER'S OWN DOING.

WE WILL SEE WHERE IT GOES.

>> YOU WORK WITH BUSINESSES IN COLORADO.

ONE OF OUR LARGEST INDUSTRIES IS THE CATTLE INDUSTRY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED WHO OWN CATTLE.

WORRIED ABOUT THEIR ANIMALS AND THEIR LIVELY HOODS.

I'M REALLY IMPRESSED WITH THE RANCHING INDUSTRY.

THEY ARE REALIZE WHAT IS HAPPENING.

THEY ARE TRYING TO WORK COLLECTIVELY TO MAKE IT BETTER?

I MEAN -- >> I THINK ERIC GAVE THEM AN IDEA TO INTRODUCE WOLVES INTO DENVER METRO REGION.

THAT WOULD BE AN INTERESTING CONVERSATION WHERE THOSE IMPACTS ARE FELT NOT JUST IN RULE COLORADO BUT IN, URBAN AS WELL.

OF COURSE, THAT WON'T HAPPEN.

TO YOUR POINT, OUR RANCHERS AND FARMERS ARE BUSINESSES IN RULE COLORADO THAT ARE BEING MOST EFFECTED DID NOT WANT THIS IDEA TO COME ABOUT.

BUT I THINK FROM ALL ACCOUNTS, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF COLLABORATION ON HOW TO PUT THE POLICY INTO ACTION.

YOU KNOW IT LOOKS LIKE THERE IS SOME AGREEMENT, NOT 100% HOW THAT POLICY LOOKS IN TERMS OF IMPACT BASE MANAGEMENT MAKING SURE, YOU KNOW, FARMERS AND RANCHERS ARE REIMBURSED.

BUT I THINK THE BIG PICTURE COME DOWNS TO, THERE IS ADDITIONAL COST TO DOING BUSINESS IN COLORADO.

IT IS ONE MORE THING.

NOW THEY GOT TO THINK ABOUT GUARDING THEIR ANIMALS OR MAYBE PERHAPS DIFFERENT INSURANCE OR DIFFERENT INFRASTRUCTURE.

ONE MORE COST TO DOING BUSINESS WHEN WE THINK ABOUT POLICIES AND HOW IT ADDS UP FOR BUSINESS HERE.

>> I HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THAT.

THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE ABOUT A DIVIDE BETWEEN RURAL AND URBAN COLORADO.

WHAT WE THINK IS BEST.

>> YOU HAVE THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT TO -- WE CAME INTO THIS AREA AND THE ONES THAT KILLED THE WOLVES THAT WERE HERE.

THE LAST WOLF WAS IN THE EARL 40S.

I THINK WE GIVE THE GROUP CREDIT.

TWO GROUPS THAT WORKED WITH COLORADO AND WILDLIFE.

THE PLAN LAST WEEK WAS A DRAFT.

THERE WAS A LOT OF COLLABORATION AS DEBBIE SAID.

THEY WORKED HARD TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT WORKED WITH EVERYONE.

THEY ARE WORKING HOW TO COMPENSATE RANCHERS.

THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE WOLVES A GAME ANIMAL.

PEOPLE CARE ABOUT THE LAND.

THEY CARE ABOUT KEEPING COLORADO WILD OR AT LEAST AS NATURAL AS IT CAN BE.

WITH THIS COLLABORATION, WE HOPE THEY COME UP WITH SOMETHING.

OBVIOUSLY, EVERYONE WANTS THIS TO WORK AT THIS POINT.

IT COULD BE A HUGE MESS.

LET'S FINGERS CROSSED.

YOU CAN COMMENT.

>> PEOPLE ARE LISTENING TO THE COMMENTS WHICH IS GREAT TOO.

WHILE THE COST OF ITEMS INCREASE AND INFLATION SOARS.

A NEW REDUCTION MADE TO THEIR PAYCHECKS JANUARY 1ST.

COLORADOANS MIGHT START DEDUCTING PREMIUMS FOR STATE MANAGEMENT INSURANCE PROGRAM.

IT IS CALLED THE FAMILY INSURANCE PROGRAM.

>> THIS IS MANAGER THAT VOTERS APPROVED IN THE ELECTION 13 MONTHS AGO AS WE SPEAK.

IT BRINGS TO MIND THE FAMOUS QUOTE SAYS DEMOCRACY IS A THEORY THAT THE COMMON PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THEY WANT AND DESERVE TO GET IT GOOD AND HARD.

WELL, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE VOTERS WILL APPROVE AND COME INTO EFFECT.

IT WILL COME INTO EFFECT WITH A COST.

THERE IS A BENEFIT.

MANY COMPANIES, RESPONSIBLE COMPANIES OFFER FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE BENEFITS.

I'M NOT HERE ARGUING AGAINST FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE AS A CONCEPT.

MANY COUNTRIES ARE FAR MORE GENEROUS THAN WE ARE HERE.

IN INFLATIONARY TIME.

I WAS STRUCK THIS WEEK IT ALMOST FELT LIKE LET'S HAVE A PARADE WHEN THE INFLATION NUMBER DROPPED TO 7.1% AND THE STOCK MARKET RALLIED.

YOU ARE USED TO THE NUMBERS IN THE EIGHTS AND IN THE NINES.

7.1% IS A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER.

OUR DAUGHTER GOT A PAY RAISE.

HER PAY RAISE WAS 2.5%.

WHILE BETTER THAN NOTHING, DOESN'T DO MUCH IN AN ECONOMY THAT IS INFLATING, WHERE COSTS ARE INFLATING AT OVER 7%.

THIS WILL ADD -- IT WILL TAKE $1 OUT OF EVERY $200 OUT OF EMPLOYEES PAYCHECK TO FUND THIS PROGRAM.

THE VOTERS APPROVED IT.

NOW THEY ARE REAPING WHAT THEY SEWED.

>> EMPLOYERS HAVE BEEN PREPPING FOR THIS TIME PERIOD WHERE THIS WILL BE ENACTED.

I'M CONCERNED THE EMPLOYEES WON'T KNOW THIS WILL BE TAKEN OUT OF THEIR PAYCHECK.

COST OF EMPLOYERS GOOD EMPLOYERS, LARGE EMPLOYERS HAVE BEEN OFFERING BENEFITS SUCH AS THESE.

OR THEY HAVE OFFERED OTHER BENEFITS THAT THEY THINK RETRAIN AND ATTRACT STAFF.

A THOUGHT THAT ONE SIZE FITS ALL WORKS FOR ALL BUSINESSES OR EVEN ALL INDIVIDUALS, I THINK IS, YOU KNOW JUST NOT ACCURATE.

OF COURSE, THIS IS THE LAW OF THE LAND NOW.

EMPLOYERS ARE DEALING WITH IT.

IT IS AGAIN AN OVERALL COST TO BUSINESSES.

IT DOESN'T ADD FLEXIBILITY IN TERMS OF BEING FLUID.

I WILL SAY FOR BUSINESSES THE PRIZE TAG COULD BE ABOUT $1.3 BILLION IN TOTAL PREMIUMS BUT 2025 WHICH IS 204% INCREASE IN THE CORPORATE INCOME TAX.

WE LOOK AT THE STATE GOVERNMENT AS ONE OF THE LARGEST EMPLOYERS IN THE STATE.

THE SAME REPORT ESTIMATES IT IS ADDITIONAL $39 MILLION A YEAR.

SO WHILE BENEFITS ARE GREAT.

MORE OPPORTUNITIES FROM EMPLOYEES IT DOES COME AT A COST.

WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF ADDING A NEW PROGRAM THAT ACCORDING TO THE REPORT WOULD LIKELY TO GO BANKRUPT IN THE SECOND YEAR OF CLAIM ELIGIBILITY.

I THINK WE NEED TO HOLD ON IN TIMES WE ARE SEEING INFLATION AND HIGHER COSTS.

IT WILL BE A BIG YEAR.

>> THE MONEY STARTS COMING OUT NOW.

BUT PEOPLE CAN APPLY FOR BENEFITS FOR ANOTHER YEAR.

>> RIGHT.

THIS IS COMING OUT OF COVID WHERE EVERY BUSINESS WOUND UP HAVING TO DEAL WITH EMPLOYEES.

THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN CAREFUL TO PEOPLE WHO ARE VALUABLE.

THAT THEY DEAL WITH FAMILY LEAVE.

THEY THEY DEAL WITH GRIEF.

THE FACT THAT VOTERS APPROVED THIS WOULD INDICATE EVERYONE IS VERY NICE AND THEY THINK THAT SHOULD HAPPEN.

THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPANIES OUT THERE THAT AREN'T GOOD.

BESIDES THE FACT WE ARE TAKING MONEY OUT OF PEOPLE'S PAYCHECKS.

THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THIS ONE IS GOING TO WORK.

>> DAVID?

>> ONE OF THE WAYS YOU CAN TELL WHETHER IT IS A GOOD IDEA OR NOT IS THE ONLY MAJOR EMPLOYERS IN COLORADO WHO CAN CHOOSE NOT TO PARTICIPATE ARE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

84% OF THEM HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO.

EVERYBODY ELSE SAYS IT IS PURE COERCION IF THEY STRUCTURE THEIR COMPENSATION.

PART OF THIS PASS IT IS A HIDDEN TAX.

GETS PAID OUT OF EMPLOYEES PAYCHECK.

SO PEOPLE SAY THAT'S NOT MY PROBLEM.

THE BUSINESS WILL PAY THAT.

IN FACT, THERE IS THE TOTAL COST OF EMPLOYEEING SOMEONE.

AND WHETHER YOU TAKE IT OUT OF EMPLOYEE'S PAYCHECK.

IT ADDS UP TO ABOUT THE SAME.

YOU RAISED THE COST OF HAVING AN EMPLOYEE BY 1%.

THAT WILL RESULT IN LESS HIRING.

FEWER RAISES FOR EMPLOYEES DOWN THE LINE.

IT CAN GO HIGHER AND BY WHAT THE VOTER PASS, THERE IS NO LIMIT.

YOU CAN HAVE ESCALATING TAX INCREASES FOREVER WITHOUT THE VOTERS BEING ASKED ABOUT IT AGAIN.

I THINK THAT IS A REAL ANTIDEMOCRATIC PROVISION.

THE COMMON SENSE INSTITUTE HAS RUN THE NUMBERS ON IT IT WILL GO BANKRUPT.

WILL HAVE ANOTHER FIASCO OF BAD FISCAL PLANNING.

>> WE WILL DO A LIGHTNING ROUND.

SOMETHING GOOD, SOMETHING BAD THAT HAS HAPPENED LATELY.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE NOT SO GOOD.

>> WE KNEW IT WAS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.

CRYPTO CURRENCY THAT IS BRINGING DOWN PLENTY OF PEOPLE DOWN IN COLORADO TOO.

A NEW LOW.

>> HUGELY DISGRACEFUL HOW SO MANY PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA AND SO MANY POLITICIANS ATTACKED THE EL PASO COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE AND BLAMED THEM FOR THE CLUB SHOOTING.

AND NOW THE FACTS HAVE COME OUT BECAUSE THE COURT LIFTED THE SEAL ON THE CRIMINALS PREVIOUS CASE WITH A BOMB THREAT.

IT TURNS OUT THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT WAS DOING EVERYTHING IT SHOULD HAVE AND THE REASON THEY COULDN'T -- THE CASE AGAINST THE CRIMINAL WAS DISMISSED THE FAMILY WOULDN'T COOPERATE.

AFTER SIGNED BY GOVERNOR POLIS, THAT CASE HAS TO BE SEALED.

ALL THE EVIDENCE ON THE BOMB THREAT COULDN'T BE USED TO GET A RED FLAG ORDER.

>> ERIC.

>> RAINING ON THE PARADE OF A LOT OF CU BUFF FANS.

THE CONTRACT GIVEN TO DION SANDERS WITH NO GUARANTEE HE WILL HAVE SUCCESS WITH THAT PROGRAM.

$29.5 MILLION.

THAT IS BASE NUMBER.

WITH NO GUARANTEES.

AND AT THE SAME TIME, SIGNIFICANT TUITION INCREASES IN INFLATIONARY TIME.

IT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE UNIVERSITY'S PRIORITIES.

>> SOME GRIM PREDICTIONS FOR WHAT IS HAPPENING IN EUROPE AROUND RISING ENERGY COSTS AND FOOD SCARCITY COMING.

IT IS ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE HERE IN COLORADO.

I'M HOPING THAT WE WILL SEE WHAT IS GRIM HAPPENING THERE AND TURN TO BETTER POLICY HERE.

>> I HOPE SO TOO.

LET'S TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT MIGHT IMPRESSED YOU THIS WEEK.

>> I'M GOING AGAINST ALL THESE EXTRA COSTS THERE ARE LOTS OF FREE EVENTS GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

FREE LIGHT SHOWS.

FREE PARADES, FREE MARKETS.

GET OUT AND ENJOY THE HOLIDAYS AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO OPEN YOUR WALLET.

>> THERE IS A GOOD FOOTBALL TEAM IN COLORADO.

THE COLORADO SCHOOL OF MINES HAVE WON 13 GAMES.

THAT IS MORE OF BRONCOS, CU COMBINED.

>> IT IS SO EXCITING.

SCHOOL OF MINES IS DOING GREAT.

>> I LOVE THAT DAVID.

THAT'S GREAT.

ONE TO JIM RETIRING ANCHOR.

WHAT A CAREER.

BEST WISHES IN THE FUTURE.

JUST A SHOUTOUT TO ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO WORK ON CHRISTMAS EVE AND CHRISTMAS DAY TO MAKE OUR SOCIETY, TO MAKE OUR PATH CONTINUE MOVING FORWARD WHILE THE REST OF US CELEBRATE.

MY DAUGHTER AS A NURSE IS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.

BUT JUST A SHOUTOUT TO EVERYONE WHO TOILS ON THE HOLIDAYS SO THE REST OF US CAN CELEBRATE.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU THERE.

>> KUDOS TO COMMON SENSE INSTITUTE.

ON KEY ECONOMIC INDICATORS.

WHEN WE THINK POLICY DATA AS KEY.

THIS IS ONE OF THOSE DATA SOURCES WE LOOK TO.

>> WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING ON AND SHARING TONIGHT.

WE WELCOME YOUR COMMENTS AS WELL.

PLEASE SHARE THEM WITH US ON OUR SOCIAL MEDIA PAGES OR EMAIL US AT CIO AT PBS12.ORG.

YOU CAN CATCH COLORADO INSIDE OUT ANY TIME ON YOUTUBE OR ON PBS12.ORG.

I'M KYLE DYER THANK YOU FOR WATCHING COLORADO INSIDE OUT.

WE WILL SEE YOU NEXT FRIDAY NIGHT HERE ON PBS12.