>>Good morning an welcome to Global Perspectives.

I'm David Dumke.

The American University in Cairo was established in 1919, and has produced some of the greatest scholars in the Middle East and throughout the region.

Today, we're joined by the Dean of the AUC School of Continuing Education, Doctor Mahmoud Allam, who himself is an educato who started several universities and is an innovator in the education space.

Thanks for joining us.

>>Thank you David.

Thank you for having me.

It's my pleasure.

>>So you are at AU this this venerable university.

That's that's that's obviously very highly prestigious in the region.

Tell us the mission of the AU school of Continuing Education.

And you yoursel did the the School of Continuing Education itself has been in existence over 100 years.

>>So, yeah, th School of Continuing Education celebrated this centennial a couple of years ago.

So we've been in operation for over a hundred years, and the mission of the School of Continuing Education is to extend the quality education and the the opportunities for lifelong learning, professional development t the Egyptian society at large.

>>So what are some of the biggest challenges?

Because you see a country like Egypt which is a developing country, you you have a thriving business community, but you have a lot of a lot of workers who are trying to get credentials.

Education is always a challenge.

Resources are a challenge.

How do you adapt to a changin marketplace and try to provide for what Egyptian workers need and can afford?

>>We're constantly looking at the market doing market research, analysis, to know what what is needed in the market.

What kind of skills are required.

What do, employers look for in whoever they hire?

And for the younger generation, like fresh graduates from university, what what skills they miss, what competencies they nee to acquire to land a good job.

We're constantly looking a that, and we adapt our programs, and we we create new opportunities as we go, just to match and and deliver on what the market needs.

>>Before I get to some of you your contemporary work at AUC, I want to get a little into your career.

You received you went to Cairo University for your undergraduate and your master's degree and you went to the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee for your PhD.

You spent a lot of time in the United States working and going to school.

You returned to Egypt and you'v worked in the education field.

You've been involved i at least three and several more.

I understand projects in higher education space.

I want to know a little about the Egypt education sector and your experience in it, and how these universities have come to being and why that case is.

Because if you go to Egypt, you read about this for every university, like AUC, there's, you know, 20 new ones that have started within the last decade or probably many, many more.

So tell us a little about education in Egypt right now.

>>Okay.

Higher education in Egypt until the mid 90s, was made available through public universities.

We had the number of public universities.

Huge student populations, hundreds of thousands in each university.

In a way, it's, funding was not available to offer the level of quality that we would like to see in, in university graduates.

So by the mid 90s, there were a few, private university that started in Egypt, and that was the time I actually returned to Egypt.

And coming from the US and experiencing, how universities in the US operate, how students study, what do they study, how they do it.

We were thinking of maybe we can replicate that.

I'm a big fan of the American university system.

Liberal arts education.

So, I got involved in, in a project to establish the first, research university based on an American system.

And, I was involved in setting it up.

Developing its curricula, its, its framework and and everything related to its operation.

We started by graduate studies.

We started master's program research centers, and we moved to undergraduates a few years later.

And that was, probably one of the first attempts to have a high quality university and education away from the standard public universities in Egypt.

Later on, the landscape for higher education has significantly change and offered new opportunities.

So, now you can have, branches of international universities in Egypt, which, the regulations di not allow until a few years ago.

And, I had the privilege of establishing a branch of a UK university for the first time in Egypt.

That was a few years ago.

>>So some of the some of these new universitie then, then kind of experimenting with different models to see what works best, what what has worked best?

>>And that's a very good question.

>>Or the results to too early actually?

>>Yeah.

First of all, if there was like a perfect formula that would make everything perfect, we would have, everyone with a follow that.

So, experiencing different, educational systems.

I think it's a good opportunity for, looking at what is best in each system.

What can be adapte to the local context in Egypt.

For now, I would say.

Well, I'm a bit biased because I work at the American University in Cairo.

The American University in Cairo is still offering, probably the best all around highe education opportunity in Egypt.

>>So tell us a few unique things about the American University in Cairo for those who are unfamiliar with it.

>>The American University i Cairo started operation in 1919, as you mentioned at the beginning.

And, it's a very, peculiar university.

It's, it's not a public university.

It's not a private university.

It has a special status.

And, what makes it different is that it, it follows the the American system.

Of course, a liberal arts education is the main focus of the university.

It offers undergraduate programs in probably more than 30 majors, graduate programs at the Masters and PhD levels in different schools.

And it has, a very distinct faculty population.

We have, some of the best faculty available in Egypt, working for AUC.

So that's probably what is setting AUC apart.

I would add also, it has an amazing campus, very well-equipped campus very well designed, that offers, very special experience to all AUC students.

>>You also have very distinguished alumni network, throughout Egypt and, and the region.

And one thing that is interesting about AUC is because of the prestige and the success of of, of of the American University in Cairo, AUC is often asked to help in developmental projects, both when, when U.S, USAID existed as well as the Egyptian government is looking for solutions, they often come to AUC.

How how has it affected your your work in the school of Continuing Education?

>>Well, as you mentioned, some of the funded projects in Egypt that work on, providing career development, for the workforce.

One of these major, major projects that was, hosted at AUC and AUC was th the lead on it is to establish career development centers in all Egyptian universities.

So, we we've established more than 50, career development centers at, Egyptian universities, public and private.

And that's an indication of, the important role AUC is playing in the landscape of, workforce development and, and professional development in Egypt.

>>What are some of the other specific fields that you're, you're, you're you're, providing training for?

What what sectors of the economy?

>>Many sectors actually, through through the years we've been adapting and maybe changing focus as needed.

The latest move is actually, towards, hospitality and tourism.

We've identified this, this area as, of special importance to Egypt, to its economy.

Tourism is one major source of revenu for, for Egypt and its economy.

And, there is, I would say a lack of qualified workforce.

There isn't enough qualified workforce, in Egypt to fill the needs of this sector that is constantly growing and expanding.

So, we are launching a hospitality and tourism academy, at, at the Schoo of Continuing Education at AUC, just to upskill the workforce to give them the competencies and skills required to operate the, in this important industry for Egypt.

>>How important is it for you when you're working in, a sector as critical to Egypt as hospitality and tourism is to to partner with the private sector in developing your own programs?

>>I think it's very important.

What we do is to, to equip the workforce with the skills that competencies needed for the market So we need the market's input.

We need to work with the industry, with the, like for hospitality and tourism.

We have already, working with the companies, the the businesses, that would benefit from equipping their staff with th skills and competencies required and whatever we offer needs to be aligned with their expectations.

So, there is a collaboration and, we're going to expand on that and make sure we work hand-in-hand with the industry and and the businesses.

>>Now, Egypt is a country, of course, it's a developing country.

You have, a lot of low wage workers, particularly including in the hospitality and tourism field.

And a lot of these workers, of course, want to advance and need the very skills you're talking about.

How can you create programs that work for them both in two ways?

One, that they're affordable enough for workers who already have economic hardships to face and second, who are working themselves.

You know, in a country like Egypt.

So time is also a constraint.

>>Okay.

One approach we are following is to, to offer these programs into, Micro-Credentials framework.

So, learner comes in to maybe acquire skills and competencies or competencies very specific to make them qualified to do a specific job so he doesn't have to complete a full program, a lengthy program that, would be a burde financially and time wise.

No, we offer the Micro-Credentials in a very flexible format.

You can attend, physically, face to face.

You can attend online, you can attend hybrid.

The timing is very flexible.

Courses are offered, i the evenings, over the weekends, so they can accommodate anyone who wants to, to enroll in the course.

And we make sure that these, courses are, affordable to, to everyone, so they can, enroll and, finish them and, be qualified.

>>How how do you assure quality?

Not not just in the hospitality program, but all the different programs you provide?

>>Yes.

The, the School of Continuing Education at AUC is, is accredited by, International Accreditation for Continuing Education and Training.

And we're, we're the only school of continuing education that has such qualification.

And this is an indication of the quality of the programs and services we offer.

One thing we have is we have like a 360 system to control our, quality in every aspect.

So everyone, evaluates everyone.

The instructors evaluate the students, they evaluate the staff, the staff evaluate that.

So it's a known model, 360 evaluation that, ensures that whatever we offer is at, the best possible standards.

>>American University, Cairo, as a university in general offers of courses in English.

Now English is is is not spoken by the work for everyone in the workforce, but it is widely used.

And of course, Egypt being such an international hub of tourism and commerce, language is vital.

>>Yes.

>>So, so what if what have your programs done to address English, you know needs for work, the workforce?

>>We've done a lot.

Let me start by like formal programs like the School of Continuing Education, at AUC has, like, English languag programs as its main component.

More than 50% of the learners that joined the school, come for studying English language.

We do have different, flavors of English, like English for specific purpose.

And, we do have, like a new platforms that we've launched, that offer English language, like self-paced courses for anyone who wants to register totally free of charge, to to equip student with the English language skills required, for example, to, to join any university, that, use English as a teaching language specifically for hospitality and tourism.

We're launching a similar, set of programs.

It's three courses that will be available totally free of charge, where anyone who wants to join our programs in hospitality and tourism would have to finish, do an assessment, make sure he's at the level of English required to start those programs.

That's how we are.

We're providing English language proficiency, improvement for everyone in Egypt.

>>You had mentioned, befor before we got on the show about, you know, the Egyptian government has a go.

Egypt has always been known.

I mean, it's Egypt with the pyramids with the great history and all, all that it has to offer.

It's always been a destination.

But the government has set an ambitious goal of doubling those number in a very short period of time.

How much pressure does that put on?

Not just AUC but but all the, educational institutions who need to adapt to those changing priorities of the government?

>>There is a lot of pressure, of course, because if you want to double the number of visitors or tourists to Egypt, you need the the people who are going to offer them the services.

So we're going to support this expansion.

And currently even the capacity of graduates from programs in the hospitality and tourism sector are not enough to fil the existing, needs, actually.

So, let alone doubling this number.

We need a lot of, program that would qualify the learners.

And that's what, in a way, encouraged us to launch these programs at th School of Continuing Education.

We want to have a leading role in, in this sector in providing, the the the skills and competencies, that, that are needed and help in developing the sector and reaching the targets that, the government has announced.

>>So, so, so turning back to the higher education picture in general.

One of the reasons, of course, Egypt has had all this, this explosion of universities if you will, is you had several universities, including your own alma mater, Cairo University, that that were established long ago, provided quality but really didn't have the capacity to dea with all the student influxes.

And public schools in Egypt are provided, without cost of tuition for students.

Is that that correct?

>>That's true.

Yeah.

>>So in wanting t to keep an educated workforce, you have to then inject all these this, these try different models with the private sector.

And the Egyptian population at the same time, the last, you know, say 50 years has continued to increase rapidly.

Is there enough educational capacity in Egypt right now?

Is it still more needs to be met?

>>I would say there is still need for for more, opportunities for more, institutions that offer quality education.

There is always an ease, particularly that, as you mentioned, the population is growing and the sector of the population that's growing is the younger generation.

If you look at the pyramids o the population, Egypt, it's... >>It's literally a pyramid.

>>This.

Yeah, yeah, it's a pyramid.

Yes.

Yeah.

So, yeah, a lot is need a lot of institutions are still needed.

The capacity, the current capacity, is probably barely covering the needs.

And we need to keep on expanding and growing.

Yeah.

>>You've talked when you're mentioning AUC, you've mentioned liberal arts education.

Is that the same model being used by al these new Egyptian universities, or are they experimentin in different, different fields?

>>No.

They're, they're experimenting in different fields.

The liberal arts education is is probably one of the differentiators, between, the American University in Cairo and other, universities in Egypt.

And I personally believe it's an advantage.

It gives a well, well-rounded education to its students and, equip them better to, to join the workforce an have an impact on the society.

Yeah.

>>So tell us a little about some of the other universities, the big three projects you were involved in prior to AUC.

The largest amount of time you spent was, was at Nile University understand and Knowledge University Hub is that the other one?

>>The Knowledge Hub University.

>>Which which was, which was a partnershi with which was a UK university.

How have foreign universities translated into the Egyptian context?

>>That was a challenge.

So, the-- >>And if I could interject for a second for viewers who are unaware, are you because you you don't just have like you have a UK model you've also had a French model, a German model, a Canadian model, a Japanese model integrating all these different models.

So.

>>Yeah, you add to that, there is the Egyptian model, ther are regulated local regulations that, the Ministry of Higher Education, imposes and enforces on all universities.

They need to follow.

So, there is always this challenge of adapting, making this, conversion.

How would this map into the, the system that, the, the local, ministry of Higher Education, wants any university to follow?

Sometimes it needs, some, tweaking to the curriculum, some additional components that we add and, we, so far, we were able to, to do this.

It's not easy.

It's, it's a it's a very, difficult process, but, it's doable.

And, and many, man universities now are doing that.

They adapt the curriculu designed in a different system, in a different country, and map it to match the, the local requirements.

And, recently even the local, requirements.

And, and the syste has been adapting and evolving.

It has been stagnant for several decades before.

But in the past few years there are attempts to to make it a bit more flexible, to allow, more, more possibilities and incorporating different models under the system.

>>So so AUC, of course, is different.

It's not a new model.

It's it's been in existence for all this time.

How is AUC been able to maintain its its quality and prestige through, you know, there's been a lot of political turmoil in Egypt, even, you know, before President Sisi came into office, you had had President Mubarak fall and you had some chaos there.

You've had a region that's very volatile.

You've had different political upheavals.

But AUC has always kind of persisted.

What's the key to success?

>>AUC managed to navigate through all these challenges and turmoils very well, actually.

We've, we've managed to, to deal with all these changes.

I think it has to do with, with the leadership, with, with the boar always trying to find a way to, focus on the mission of th university and making sure that external factors do not affect operations and the university's mission.

As much it would with other institutions.

So I think it has to do with with how things, are managed at the university, at the higher level, at the university that make the university navigate through these challenges.

>>Of course, you know, AU has its own name, brand people.

People know it.

But but you still have American University.

>>Yes.

>>And this has been a very volatile time for American foreign policy in the region.

You have you have multiple war going on between Israel and the Palestinians and, and Lebanon and of course, Iran more, more recently.

How has that and that must have put pressure on on the university in terms of you're part of a bigger environment?

>>The society in Egypt understands what the American University is all about.

It's about education.

It's about, it's about helping people develop.

It has nothing to do with the with the political-- >>Right.

>>Situation or, it doesn't it doesn't play any, any role in that sense.

It focuses on its mission, which is education.

And I believe everyone in Egypt understands and values what the American University does.

As an institution.

>>This is a you see, I guess I may put on a different question and on how kind of the both economic and political turmoil can, can affect things, because AUC has had some, some challenges keeping foreign students, particularly when there's problems not in Egypt specifically, but the region is that is that's still still a proble or is that something that just you have to weather because it's-- >>Yeah, I think yeah, you have to deal with that because sometimes, yeah.

What's happening in the region affects, particularly international students coming to study at AUC with which used to be, a significant percentage of the student population.

Now it's probably less, but I think the trend now is going up again.

We're trying to, to make sure that, anyone who is considering coming to, to study at AUC knows that it's it's a very good opportunity.

It's, it's a safe environment.

And, they're encouraged to, to come anytime.

>>So so we're talking about challenges.

I want to talk about opportunities, too, because there's a lot of things going on at AUC right now.

You're expanding a campus.

You're continuing education.

You were telling me, is starting a new campus.

You're going to be located actually in three different campuses.

Tell us a little about what's going on at AUC in terms of the coming years?

>>There are several projects.

You mentioned the, the new, construction on campus in the main campus in New Cairo.

There are, three major projects.

The first one is, is a like, a technology research, lab.

The second one is an expansion of the student housing.

And the third one is for what we refer to as extended education, which covers continuing education and executive, programs.

So, this, is a result of the increased demand on, extended education programs and the number of people who are constantly looking at, expanding their, their knowledge to improving their, their skills.

The university decided that we need to have a dedicated building for extended education.

The new campus, currently the School of Continuing Education, is located in the old AUC campus in downtown Cairo.

And, this would be an another extension.

You mentioned three.

There is a new operatio that we just started last week, actually in, in Egypt's, new administrative capital.

And this, it's a small training center that will focus on developing government staff, and the ministry and its governmental institutions that are operating now in the new capital.

>>So it's that new the new project that is an extension of meeting the need that sets the country's needs.

Needs expand to.

>>That's exactly it.

Yes.

>>And you've seen an increase in enrollmen and continuing education at AUC?

>>Yeah.

As we are, expanding our programs and making making them more, more flexible to cover the needs of the different sectors and in the society.

Yeah.

Enrollment has been constantl increasing the past few years.

>>While keeping that same gold standard that AUC.

>>Yes.

That's important.

That's, an essential part of it.

Yes.

>>Well, Doctor Mahmoud Allam, thank you so much for joining us today.

We appreciate you having you on and wish you the best of luck as you continue this your important work and helping workforce development in Egypt.

>>Thank you very much, David.

It's a pleasure and all the best.

>>And thank you for joining us.

We'll see you again next week on another episode of Global Perspectives.