>> Doctor Ronald Johnson is serving as interim president of Kentucky State University.

The state's only publicly funded historically black university mired in financial troubles in recent years.

How is the university trying to bounce back and what's the status of the presidential search?

A conversation with interim President Donald Johnson now on connections.

♪ ♪ Thank you for joining me for connections today.

I'm Renee Shaw.

Hope you're having a good day.

We're joined by Ronald Johnson, the interim president of Kentucky State University Johnson is a higher education adviser, an executive who's lead change successfully of both public and private universities.

He has expertise in developing pathways that amplify academic research and fund raising success and strengthening the operating effectiveness.

He came to K state at a time of financial upheaval and is helping to right the ship for a permanent successor.

We'll talk about a recent examination of the institutions.

Financials and how the university is working to rebuild confidence and public trust.

Welcome.

Doctor Dawson is a pleasure to have you here.

Thank you.

And on the time that we talked, it was right after the Derby and we're going into commencement season.

Yes, our Kentucky State University and I hear you've got a pretty good speaker lined up for the commencement address to, you know.

Well, absolutely.

Louisville's find us.

>> The you know, Senator Jeremy O he is coming to his Armada.

Yeah.

and marking, I importantly, a pivot point.

So I'm just really happy that he is agreed to come.

I know he well versus the issues, but most importantly.

He's genuinely concerned about the people are going to be graduating.

>> Well, and that's very true.

And for those who may not have caught the and state Sen Gerald Neal, who has been in the state It's been a long time since the late 1980's and has served well and he is the minority leader in the state that so we certainly he has a level of prominence there.

And as you said, has been a big proponent for Kentucky State University and has talked pretty frequently on the Senate floor and in committees about the Legislature's commitment or lack thereof up until this point to make sure the institution is successful.

Do you agree with some of what Senator Neal's perspective is about how the struggles of Kentucky State aren't just solely they're responsible of the university.

How do you see it?

>> it's there are 2 sides to the coin right one side the level of commitment that the Commonwealth makes.

There was some demonstration of that last year and provide the supports for the university.

Then the other is what do you do with the resources that you have?

So I come an impartial I'm have >> I come in.

>> And I'm looking at the institution and what its promises.

And then the question is, how do we then move the institution on to attract allows it to move towards his promise?

>> Yes, well, we'll talk a little bit more about where the university is in terms of its financial standing.

But I do want viewers to get a chance to know who you are and serving as interim president as you have for quite some Tell us little bit more about your background and how you found yourself.

A Kentucky State University at such a pivotal time.

>> Well, my background it's it's it's broad.

But there's a on the seen in the background that team involves being able to come to an institution with a vision.

With the ability to execute on that vision and then throughout my career.

I've been a fiduciary.

So I concerned about other people's money being wisely used lies that is done me well in the who is in new investment world, president of investment firm managing money for Exxon Mobil and Honda and others.

And he's done as an economist at the Federal Reserve Board in the New York Fed and International Monetary Fund.

And does that mean well, as a dean and also president of the University?

Being in touch with we're the institution can actually go.

It's very, very important.

And that's and so that's that's totally what I bring to the table.

All institutions in the 21st century have to be positioned for change.

Because change is happening on a continuous basis.

And if you're not changing, then you then you I'm going to be left behind.

coming to Kentucky State University.

The first thing was that I needed to have a vision of how this place can be changed.

Now, of course, to a number of mandates that are out there.

There's a House Bill, in there.

There's management approve a plan to decisions that have to be made in terms performance of both of employees and whether they get separated or some other adjustments there are a host of but those are called those shopping lists.

And that the change management part of it is what?

What?

Find abroad, which is a recipe.

And then you have cooks, you know, to make the the whatever the dish.

So you only have the grocery lists you may well, the items, but you don't And so that's essentially what I did.

But I put I've done industry government international as well as cause her education.

>> So to fill our viewers and who may not be aware of some of the issues that Kentucky State has had in recent weeks.

We know that the state auditor Mark Mike Harmon, had issued an official examination of the financials of the university.

This came out in March of 2023, of course, there kind of substantiated reporting that had been revealed about K State for a while and talked about 20 findings and identifying significant issues, including 3.3, 4 million federal grant funds being at risk.

2.7 million withdrawn from and out funds to supplement cash balances, undocumented credit and card transactions, wasteful spending on extravagant bonuses and benefits and crippling budget and procurement failures there was an audit dawn previous to that.

And that was in the year 2000 by former Democratic Auditor Mike Harmon is a Republican Democratic auditor in 2000 and Hatchett that it found 16 findings and many of those issues identified in that report were repeated and the 2023 how it can you talk us, Lou, you already know what was going to be found.

You KET what would be found.

How have you tried to right the ship, as I say to to restore public trust and confidence to temporarily with policymakers and lawmakers who well, in effect, pull the purse strings of K state.

as I mentioned, this is a change management exercise.

And so when I landed in July, I talked about looking at the from from the perspective of a plan.

The planet, 3 components to it.

And I called that plan the intended future plan and the in order to make any plan work because all over the stations are organizations of people that people doing things for people who then hopefully go out and do things for the people.

>> So the name of the plan is enabling and intended future for Kentucky State.

Why have a name like that?

Nike came up.

Was the the term just do it as a monitor for the people in the camp is essentially an internal stakeholders to be motivated.

That will change.

So in a blink tells people that they are able to do it and intended future as opposed to what's going on now.

And though we never had this idea has view a mad but unintended future.

And with a focus on especially on the future.

So so the first thing is to label the plan.

And then to talk about the components of the plan, which involves restoring.

The credibility of the institution.

Therefore, you can didn't have confidence in it.

Realigning the resources so that these Katyusha cheese performance and then last but definitely not least.

Reigniting the institution so that you get understanding that most universities do not have an internal engine.

They have to be tied to something else.

One simple way of looking at it there in the supply chain.

There is downstream and upstream upstream law students and their families downstream the companies that hire them and the universities in between universities kind of like a transit center.

But unlike a transit center where people just go through and they just get on the bus.

It does some transformation.

And so the transformation that happens has got to be what the people who are capable of handling and what the people looking to hire are looking for.

So once you have that understanding and you look at the Kentucky State University, it becomes a pretty easy.

I'm not saying that obviously 0, because pretty to then sent to the change management process.

>> Where you first have to make sure that you have the risk that put institutions.

Moving some of the resources around so that you can actually gain credibility, credibility with your internal stakeholders could ability extol stakeholders, including, of course.

>> Is that a state is as that credibility been restored with the stakeholders internal?

Well, we have done a substantial amount in terms of restoration.

>> Of credibility.

But you don't you can't just re still critically.

Overnight.

Again, I talked about this is a change.

Change happens over time.

When it's positive.

What is negative?

It can happen on the night to somebody lights the to set a match in the House and the burns up >> one of the fastest change situations I've ever heard of when in the 70's some Sweden move for driving on the right-hand side.

Diving on the left-hand side, they closed all the roads and at one night and they opened up the rose the next day and everybody had to dive into the That's presto That's, you know, to Pat.

But most for is just to got to you've got to get in there.

You have to understand what you're doing.

You've got to get the plumbing to work, right?

And so the man told the progresses more so.

>> Yes.

All right.

So so so so getting the plumbing to painting to work means that you actually have to get people to believe that they can actually make the changes.

>> And get them to understand what changes need to be made.

>> And some people would say the changes need to come from inside that the same people who've been a part of either an administration.

>> Or system or however, the function of that institution that seems to be dysfunctional.

>> Need to be invited to have employment elsewhere in your changes in concrete terms has included terminations reassignments within the university.

It because some people would say that that's what is needed.

>> Lows, 2 ways first and House Bill 2.50, section one calls for an evaluation of every person on the campus.

And then a determination with respect was of this year ago based on their performance and also other factors they may be in that function is no longer needed or they're they're just too expensive for the role.

>> For the competent well, you know, the needs that the first the first one is that they're not competent.

They are in satisfactory performers than those 3 categories.

Now, under normal circumstances the with HB 2.50, was passed in April of last year, then immediately after that, that those actions have been taken.

But they weren't so coming in as the interim.

If I classes that I have to cover.

And I have faculty and I said, well, the faculty are not capable of of of teaching in this window about whether or not but then I'll have him but to cover classes are got a problem.

You see that the structuring of this was not the way it should have been.

All those actions have taken place last spring.

So now what we're doing is we're taking those actions now.

Okay.

So that's the next thing to come as we go into the whole process we've we've the review process ease by actually wrote the one for faculty.

we've implemented.

And now we're now coming to the finish line in terms of evaluating the people and make a determination.

>> Perhaps a dozen foreign aid, the purview of president.

But the board has also gotten a lot of criticism that the board of Regents, I think they're call maybe trustees.

Kentucky, Kentucky State University reshuffling the deck of the board, which should be the few to Sherry right of the institution.

Where does that stand in terms of board structure and realigning what their responsibility should be and their ownership of their responsibilities to have more checks and balances.

When you hear about these, you know, perhaps misappropriation of funds or misuse of funds, should they have known should they have acted?

>> Well, this is an entirely different board, right from the board that was in the past the part of the House Bill.

2 HB 2.50, involves board training.

So the board has actually and gays in various training that that have the day they love themselves of those programs.

>> This still developing their jobs as a board and working together the complete role.

The complete role is so one of governance, which means oversight and oversight means you have to have that understanding a fiduciary responsibility.

Understanding in higher education, it's your governance and then understanding that your job is to hire support and fire president.

Get those of those goals as though they're they're developing those through various some actions that up that that we are that we're implementing in terms of men to approve a plan.

So this board is different from the previous boards.

>> Underneath the previous president, Christopher Brown right?

New complete board, new board chair.

>> Right.

So new new new new new and the thing I work for the board.

>> And my job is to be as transparent as possible.

>> Also to the board with information that will actually help them develop their insight.

That's not to say that the members of the board don't know or whatever it is that.

My training is in finance and economics.

There's some fields of I have no clue okay, just because I'm just then the gays and the space and same thing in Certain fields.

I just don't know.

And so because of where you come from, if you've not been on a university ward and then on top of the HBCU board.

And then on top of that right?

Board of a of a land grant institution.

There are a lot of complexities that that that you need to understand.

And it also says it's important for us and that that data our data and not information.

And so I spent time and, you know, I'm explaining to the board.

What the information is that they need as opposed to the data that's collected.

Part of the problem with the previous board was that one?

I think you have just been tough, do not for a period.

And then 3rd.

You just go day at them.

And that's OK, that sounds good.

Okay.

But the data is that useless.

>> Wright is no context to that.

Has has have the recent financial troubles of Kentucky state impacted student enrollment or was the fact that perhaps students still had debts old to the institution?

And is that a tribute to some of the financial woes of the institution?

But how is enrollment during this kind of turbulent periods?

And Patrick elation, you know, you're hitting the nail on the head right >> all of the stuff that's going on in the past.

Has what I call it gets going like a washing machine.

And and put the washing machine doesn't go anywhere unless you have a rogue or something like What we see is there is spinning around.

And that's why change management is important.

The coming to figure out, hey, wait a minute.

What is really the driving issues here.

What are the problems that I see putting this institution back in Friday.

The 13th bus in over and over and over again.

And and it is.

I believe one.

I don't know.

I don't know the people that we had before, but I do know what I see and what I see is a result of a world without vision.

You'll have vision.

And guess what, you don't know where he is.

Spending around the washing machine.

Part of the vision has got to be tied to the purpose of the institution.

And various people have various understandings of the purpose.

Most land on the purpose being an HBCU.

But actually the purpose of this institution as there's 3, 3, roles, it's an HBCU.

Founded in 18.

86.

It's a land grant institution.

And as a result, comprehensive institution.

It's a call 3 cylinders.

In order to kill 3 cylinders, you actually have to have a value proposition for your stakeholders.

That matters to the stakeholders as will sue.

Now, these 2 men to leadership over.

The board is it's added to the stakeholders.

in today's world.

What I presented to our board.

Is that the the the the should put their arms around this notion inclusive innovation.

Put their put their arms around.

This notion of the intended future.

All that saw 2 together.

And inclusive innovation means that Kentucky State University having those 3 roles should actually come to the commonwealth and say, what do you need?

What are you trying to do?

And then let me see what I can do to help as a whole different mindset.

From what are police perceive was going on before?

Again, I don't know those people.

So I can't tell you what they were thinking.

We're going to see what the results.

So once you do that now, you know, becoming relevant.

the community.

a land grant, just what 100 plus acre farm.

That farm is a bluegrass far.

Some parts of the some you the technical term dirt as 4 inches deep.

Other parts of 3 cause.

It's deep.

So the question is.

If you use sustainable practices.

Can you get that 100 plus acre farm to be Scale.

That's a Small.

Family farms are the backbone of of Kentuckyian back on the country.

There's farms are 50, you know acres.

25 acres to maybe 500.

So you have this manager a miniature really prototype.

That is a prototype for the typical Kentucky bluegrass.

Then you can figure out well for where there is 4 inches of dirt crops with those 3 quarters inches of dirt, then you vines like grapes or boys.

And you have animals.

for grazing.

You figure this whole thing out and now you've actually had an impact for people in and the commonwealth.

That's the way to think about it.

And so if you have that as your vision, but you're going to be of service.

Then all of a sudden, I don't want to cut you off, but we have a few minutes remaining and I want to make sure we get to the presidential search and the 3 and a half minutes.

So let's talk about who the 3 finalists are.

>> Doctor Koji a So we know we know him a coffee, a capo.

Mister Gerald Ellsworth Hunter and Mister Robert, a mock junior.

So these are your selections.

The one on the very far left is the current president of Bluegrass Community Technical College.

You're not in the running for it.

So let's make a quick answer on that.

Yes or no.

You did not want this was other than what this job.

I have a job to job is to come Help save this institution.

>> And that's what I've been doing.

So the the presidential search where it is now you have 3 finalists.

When do you hope to have someone appointed and in the position and the role as a permanent successor to you?

>> Well, >> as the interim, I've not been involved in the search at And when I had my name is out and then I'm not involved that.

So board decision.

As far as I the board is looking forward to the end of May.

I think the 25th or so is one that they plan to make an announcement.

I do know He's a good guy.

I don't know the other people.

>> You have any influence in the decision?

>> No, none.

None know.

And and I think it should be that way that the board is a governing body.

I work for the board and all the other people on campus work for the president.

So that's what?

>> So are they are really pressing through the financials of these 3 finalists to make sure that they don't come with the baggage at the previous.

The president came with it.

Their previous institution.

Are there being thorough checks done and do you even know about how much of a food to Sherry, one of these 3 gentlemen would be for Kentucky State University.

>> Well, I would say this that that the Tammy Dukes.

She's an auditor.

Okay.

And one to 300.

His is to act.

That they will turn over the last leaf.

So I have a tremendous amount of confidence and her and her leadership.

And so I don't think that the the the be quite honest error that was made and the last search will be this time in terms of the person that just stop, not not the right fit for the role.

>> The stakes are higher this time around for the stakeholders that you just mention for the funding future for the for the university.

It has to be right this time.

Would you agree?

>> Absolutely.

I mean, if I were in the that's what I would say.

I would say, look, you know what, this has been going on for too long and again, because on a fiduciary, I believe in and making sure the other people's money is spent properly.

I wouldn't say, look, this is a demand.

Notice.

So I understand that I spent time and the Capitol talking to senators as well as representatives on both sides of the aisle.

And I clearly understand their frustration.

And I also what needs to happen on the campus.

And so that's what we've been doing with the latest plan now.

And we're going to give this plan.

So it's not just that we just responding to several giving the plan.

The board already has a plan.

So now the question is, take it.

the individual and let them run down the field with the ball.

>> So essentially the playbook has been given the permanent president when he assumes the role right, that it's already the ground has been killed and now it's up to them to do the work.

Well, we thank you so much for breaking it down for us and sharing some time with us.

And we wish Kentucky say the best and its future to calm and we thank you for watching today.

Of course, you can always KET in touch with us on Facebook, Twitter, all the socials and you can listen to previous programs.

Okay.

You T DOT Org Slash podcast and watch this week night at 6, 35, 30 central time for Kentucky Edition where we educate inform and connect in ways and hopefully inspire you about your great Commonwealth.

Thank you for watching.

I'll see you again really soon.

Take good care.

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