♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>>> ALL COUNTRIES, NO MATTER WHERE IT COMES FROM, ALL COUNTRIES.

>> TRUMP GOES AFTER FRIENDS AND FOES ALIKE.

WHAT WILL THAT MEAN FOR AMERICA'S STANDING IN THE WORLD?

THEN -- >> THERE'S RULES.

THREE RULES OF WINNING.

THE FIRST RULE IS THE SIMPLEST.

ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK.

>> "THE APPRENTICE" TELLS THE STORY OF TRUMP'S RISE, AND THE MAN BEHIND IT, ROY COHN, PLAYED BY JEREMY STRONG.

HE JOINS ME HERE IN THE STUDIO FRESH FROM HIS OSCAR AND BAFTA NOMINATIONS.

THEN -- >> THERE'S NOT REALLY A DAY WHEN I'M NOT SORT OF THINKING ABOUT THAT DAY AND ALL OF MY COMMUNITY.

>> SURVIVING PARKLAND.

SEVEN YEARS ON, LIFE AFTER ONE OF AMERICA'S DEADLIEST SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

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AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

TODAY, PRESIDENT TRUMP AND RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN HAD A 90-MINUTE PHONE CALL, MAKING HIM THE FIRST AMERICAN LEADER TO SPEAK WITH THE RUSSIAN LEADER AND PROMISE PRESIDENTIAL VISITS SINCE EARLY IN PUTIN'S UNPROVOKED INVASION OF UKRAINE THEE THREE YEARS AGO.

AFTER THAT CONVERSATION, TRUMP THEN SPOKE TO UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.

MEANTIME, DEFENSE SECRETARY PETE HEGSETH MADE CLEAR THE U.S. NO LONGER WANTS TO TAKE THE LEAD PROTECTING UKRAINE, AND POURED COLD WATER ON SOME OF KYIV'S BOTTOM LINES FOR PEACE NEGOTIATIONS.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> BUT WE MUST START BY RECOGNIZING THAT RETURNING TO UKRAINE'S PRE-2014 BORDERS IS AN UNREALISTIC OBJECTIVE.

CHASING THIS ILLUSIONARY GOAL WILL ONLY PROLONG THE WAR AND CAUSE MORE SUFFERING.

A DURABLE PEACE FOR UKRAINE MUST INCLUDE ROBUST SECURITY GUARANTEES TO ENSURE THAT THE WAR WILL NOT BEGIN AGAIN.

THIS MUST NOT BE MINSK 3.0.

THAT SAID, THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT NATO MEMBERSHIP FOR UKRAINE IS A REALISTIC OUTCOME OF A NEGOTIATED SETTLEMENT.

>> SO, NOT EVEN A MONTH SINCE DONALD TRUMP STORMED BACK INTO THE WHITE HOUSE WITH A RAFT OF EXECUTIVE ORDERS, HERE ABROAD, AN AMERICA-FIRST VISION IS COMING INTO FOCUS.

WHICH IS ALSO STICKING IT TO AMERICA'S ALLIES, AS WELL AS ITS ADVERSARIES.

WORLD LEADERS ARE STILL GRAPPLING WITH TRUMP'S SHOCKING GAZA PROPOSAL.

WHEN HE SAID HE WANTS TO OWN IT, HOLD IT, AND CHERISH IT.

HERE'S THE FRENCH PRESIDENT, EMMANUEL MACRON, WHO DISMISSED IT OUT OF HAND.

>> NOW, THE RIGHT ANSWER IS NOT A REAL ESTATE OPERATION.

THIS IS A POLITICAL OPERATION.

JUST BECAUSE THIS IS NOT A FREE LAND, THIS IS A PLACE WHERE 2 MILLION PEOPLE LIVE AND WANT TO LIVE.

SO, YOU CANNOT SAY TO 2 MILLION PEOPLE, OKAY, NOW GUESS WHAT?

YOU WILL MOVE.

>> BUT EUROPE'S FAR-RIGHT LEADERS ARE CELEBRATING TRUMP'S GLOBAL SHAKEUP.

THIS, JUST A YEAR AFTER VICE PRESIDENT AND TRUMP'S PRESIDENTIAL RIVAL KAMALA HARRIS WARNED THAT EMBRACING AUTOCRATS WOULD BE DESTABILIZING AND SHORTSIGHTED.

SO, IS THIS A NEW WORLD ORDER?

AND WILL AMERICA FIRST BE WINNER OR LOSER?

RICHARD HAASS SERVED FOR YEARS IN SENIOR POSITIONS AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT BEFORE HEADING UP THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS.

HE JOINS ME NOW FROM NEW YORK.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU.

>> CAN WE START BY TALKING ABOUT THE NEWS IN WHICH TRUMP ANNOUNCED THAT HE HAS SPOKEN TO VLADIMIR PUTIN AND THEY'VE TALKED ABOUT EXCHANGING VISITS?

I WANT TO READ YOU A LITTLE BIT OF TRUMP'S OWN READOUT, AND HOW HE POSTED IT.

HE SAID, WE'VE ALSO AGREED TO HAVE OUR TEAMS START NEGOTIATIONS IMMEDIATELY, AND WE'LL BEGIN BY CALLING PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY OF UKRAINE TO INFORM HIM OF THE CONVERSATION.

SOMETHING WHICH I'LL BE DOING RIGHT NOW.

I'VE ASKED SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO, DIRECTOR OF THE CIA JOHN RATCLIFFE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER AND AMBASSADOR SPECIAL ENVOY STEVE WITKOFF TO LEAD THE NEGOTIATIONS, WHICH I FEEL WILL BE SUCCESSFUL.

RIGHT.

SO, HERE'S THE FIRST AMERICAN PRESIDENT TO ENGAGE WITH PUTIN SINCE THE, YOU KNOW, SINCE THE INVASION.

I JUST WANT TO KNOW YOUR VIEWS OF ALL OF THIS, INCLUDING IF FACT THAT HE SPOKE TO PUTIN FIRST AND NOT HIS ALLY, ZELENSKYY, ABOUT THIS.

>> WELL, TWO SIGNALS FROM THAT, CHRISTIANE.

ONE IS THAT THE PHASE IN WHICH VLADIMIR PUTIN WAS A PARIAH FROM THE AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE, THAT SEEMS TO BE OVER.

AND THE POTENTIAL -- EMPHASIZE POTENTIAL, IS THAT IT ALLOWS NEGOTIATIONS OVER UKRAINE, THE NUCLEAR ARMS CONTROL NEGOTIATIONS TO RESUME, BECAUSE THE CURRENT AGREEMENTS EXPIRE IN LESS THAN A YEAR.

AND SO FORTH.

SO, THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF THINGS TO TALK ABOUT.

THE SEQUENCING AND THE WAY IT WAS PACKAGED AS THOUGH THE TWO BIG LEADERS SPOKE AND NEXT WE'LL GET TO VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, IS UNFORTUNATE IT, BECAUSE IT RAISES THE SPECTER OF A DEAL BEING CRAFTED OVER HIS HEAD.

REINFORCED A LITTLE BIT BY THE COMMENTS BY THE NEW SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, WHO IS ESSENTIALLY SAYING WHAT ALREADY ARE THE AMERICAN PARAMETERS.

AND TO SOME EXTENT, THOUGH WE CAN TALK ABOUT, TO SOME, BUT NOT TOTALLY AT VARNS WITH UKRAINE'S PREFERENCES.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT IT, BECAUSE A LOT OF THEM ARE AT VARIANCE.

ZELENSKYY HAS BEEN GIVING A LOT OF INTERVIEWS AND HIS LATEST IS HE SAID HE'D BE WILLING TO GIVE UP CERTAIN TERRITORY, BUT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT KURSK, WHICH THEY TOOK PRECISELY FOR NEGOTIATING PROCESS ANYWAY.

THE RUSSIANS, THE KREMLIN HAS COMPLETELY, YOU KNOW, DISMISSED THAT, AND FROM ALL THE PAST THAT WE'VE HEARD FROM THE KREMLIN AND PUTIN, LITERALLY ZERO OF ZELENSKYY'S PROPOSALS ARE ACCEPTABLE.

DO YOU THINK THAT PUTIN HAS SHOWN ANY -- ANY DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF WANTING THE TOTAL SURRENDER OF UKRAINE?

>> ACTUALLY, I DON'T THINK HE'S ASKING FOR AND HE'S NOT GETTING THE TOTAL SURRENDER OF UKRAINE.

I THINK IT'S REALLY ESSENTIAL FOR PEOPLE WATCHING US TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN A CEASE-FIRE AND A PEACE TREATY.

AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, WE'RE MORE LIKELY TALKING ABOUT A CEASE-FIRE, SO EVEN IF UKRAINE SIGNS ONTO A DEAL, THAT ESSENTIALLY REFLECTS THE CURRENT BATTLEFIELD, IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY GIVE UP THEIR LONG-TERM PLANS ANYMORE, BY THE WAY, THAN VLADIMIR PUTIN, WOULD BE ASKED TO GIVE UP HIS FEVER DREAM OF TOTALLY REINTEGRATING UKRAINE INTO A GREATER RUSSIA.

I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A CEASE-FIRE IN PLACE.

I THINK THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE IS MORE RIGHT THAN NOT IN SAYING THAT IT IS FANCIFUL TO THINK THAT UKRAINE CAN REGAIN THAT TERRITORY THROUGH MILITARY MEANS.

A CEASE-FIRE WOULD END THE SUFFERING, IT WOULD ALLOW UKRAINE TO BE REBUILT.

WHAT'S REALLY ESSENTIAL, I'D SAY, THOSE, ARE TWO THINGS.

ONE IS WHETHER WE GET AN AMERICAN COMMITMENT, AN OPEN-ENDED COMMITMENT, TO PROVIDE UKRAINE WITH ARMS, AND SECOND OF ALL, WHETHER THE EUROPEANS ARE NOT ONLY WILLING TO PROVIDE SOME ARMS, BUT WILL BE TO PROVIDE SOME FORCES ON THE GROUND.

IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET A NATO COMMITMENT, THE UNITED STATES DOESN'T WANT THAT FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS, AND COULD YOU GET A EUROPEAN COMMITMENT, OR AT LEAST A COALITION OF THE WILLING, POLAND, MAYBE A FEW OTHER COUNTRIES, POSSIBLY THE UK AND FRANCE, WILLING TO PROVIDE, IF YOU WILL, THE SUBSTANCE OF A SECURITY COMMITMENT.

>> SO, WHAT DID YOU HEAR FROM HEGSETH?

I THINK HE SAID SECURITY GUARANTEES FOR UKRAINE, BUT HE DISMISS ED -- COMPLETELY TOOK OF THE TABLE ANY THOUGHT OF UKRAINE JOINING NATO.

BUT BOOTS ON THE GROUND, HE DIDN'T COMMIT TO AMERICANS BEING IN PEACEKEEPING ROLES AT ALL.

>> NO.

NO, I THINK THERE'S A DIVISION OF LABOR HERE.

BOOTS ON THE GROUND WOULD NOT BE NATO, WOULD BE SELECTIVE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, WILLING AND ABLE TO DO IT.

AND AGAIN, THE BIG QUESTION IS, AND I HOPE THIS IS FORTHCOMING, THAT THE UNITED STATES WOULD SIGN ON TO PROVIDING ARMS FOR AN OPEN-ENDED PERIOD.

ESSENTIALLY, AS LONG AS THEY WERE NECESSARY.

IF THAT'S THE OUTCOME, NOT PERFECT, BUT NOT BAD, AND I THINK THE WHOLE IDEA OF A PERMANENT PEACE TREATY, THAT'S THE SORT OF THING THAT I THINK ACTUALLY WOULD HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL AFTER VLADIMIR PUTIN PASSES FROM THE SCENE.

AND WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE DAY WHEN YOU HAVE A RUSSIAN LEADER WHO IS INTERESTED IN REINTEGRATING RUSSIA WITH EUROPE AND THE WEST.

ONE OTHER THING THAT DIDN'T, AT LEAST I DID NOT HEAR TODAY, CHRISTIANE, IS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WITH SANCTIONS.

TO WHAT EXTENT WOULD PRESIDENT TRUMP BE PREPARED, AT THIS STAGE, IF YOU GET A CEASE-FIRE, TO RELAX CERTAIN ECONOMIC SANCTIONS?

TO WHAT EXTENT WOULD HE HOLD SOME IN RESERVE FOR THAT SECOND PHASE NEGOTIATION OF A PERMANENT PEACE?

>> YEAH, AND AGAIN, I DIDN'T ACTUALLY HEAR HEGSETH SAY THAT THEY WERE COMMITTED TO CONTINUING TO PROVIDE WEAPONS.

HE DID PUT IT ALL ON EUROPE, SO, THAT WILL BE INTERESTING TO PASS.

IN THE DAYS TO COME.

IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT TRUMP SAYS THINGS, EVERYBODY SAYS, OH, THIS IS A NEGOTIATING STRATEGY.

BUT HOW DO YOU THINK PUTIN WOULD READ THIS QUOTE, WHICH HE SAID TODAY, THEY MAY MAKE A DEAL, THEY MAY NOT MAKE A DEAL.

THEY, IE, UKRAINE, MAYBE RUSSIANS SOME DAY, OR THEY MAY NOT BE RUSSIANS SOME DAY.

WHAT IS THAT MEANT TO SAY TO ANYBODY?

>> THAT'S UNFORTUNATE.

THERE'S NO WAY TO SUGARCOAT IT.

IT'S EXACTLY WHAT PUTIN WANTS TO HEAR, BECAUSE THAT REINFORCES HIS SENSE THAT ANY DEAL IS NOT THE FINAL DEAL, BUT IS A WEIGH STATION.

NEEDLESS TO SAY, THAT WILL UNNERVE UKRAINE TO SOME EXTENT.

AND IT MEANS THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK MORE TO EUROPE THAN TO THE UNITED STATES, LED BY DONALD TRUMP.

>> SO, LET'S TALK ABOUT EUROPE, BECAUSE PART OF WHAT HEGSETH WAS SAYING, AND AS YOU'VE HEARD, JD VANCE AND OTHERS, AND TRUMP, I MEAN, THEY BASICALLY HAVE BEEN LECTURING EUROPE FOR THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS IN OFFICE, SAYING, YOU BASICALLY HAVE TO DO IT.

YOU HAVE TO BE IN CHARGE OF YOUR OWN SECURITY.

WE -- THEY KIND OF FLOATED THAT THE NUCLEAR UMBRELLA OF THE U.S. WOULD REMAIN, BUT NONETHELESS, IT'S UP TO YOU, PERIOD, END OF STORY.

AND WITH THAT COMES SANCTIONS -- SORRY, TARIFFS.

I MEAN, SLAPPING 25% TARIFFS ON ALLIES AND ADVERSARIES, AND IT APPEARS, I MEAN, LET ME JUST READ WHAT SIMON COOPER OF THE FT SAID.

HE BASICALLY SAID, TRUMP IS MORE RESPECTFUL OF HIS TWO FELLOW APEX PREDATORS, CHINA AND RUSSIA.

HE PLACED LOWER INITIAL TARIFFS ON CHINA THAN ON MEXICO AND CANADA, PERHAPS BECAUSE CHINA HAS SHARPER TEETH.

HOW ARE YOU READING ALL OF THIS RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, BREAK IT INTO TWO PARTS.

WITH EUROPE, THE MESSAGE IS THAT EUROPE HAS TO BECOME MORE SELF-SUFFICIENT.

IT IMMEDIATES TO SPEND MORE ON DEFENSE.

AND I'D ACTUALLY ADD TO THAT, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE TRUE OF ANY AMERICAN PRESIDENT.

THE UNITED STATES IS GOING TO BE FOCUSED INCREASINGLY ON THE ASIA PACIFIC, TO SOME EXTENT ON THE MIDDLE EAST, MAYBE EVEN MORE IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE.

THE IDEA THAT THE UNITED STATES IS GOING TO HAVE THAT LARGE RESERVE OF FORCES AVAILABLE FOR EUROPE IS INCREASINGLY A QUESTION.

I ALSO THINK EUROPE NEEDS TO SPEND SMARTER.

YOU CAN'T EVEN SPEAK OF A EUROPEAN DEFENSE.

YOU COULD SPEAK OF A FRENCH DEFENSE, A GERMMAAN DEFENSE, A BRITISH DEFENSE, YOU NEED MUCH MORE INTEGRATION.

YOU HAVE FAR MORE -- YOU HAVE FAR TOO MUCH DUPLICATION OR REPLICATION, NOT ENOUGH INTEGRATED DEFENSE.

SO, I THINK THAT'S ALL REALITY.

AND, AGAIN, I THINK IT WOULD BE TRUE UNDER ANY PRESIDENT, PERHAPS NOT AS BRUTAL AS IT IS AT TIMES UNDER THIS ONE.

YOUR LARGER POINT ABOUT HOW MR. TRUMP SEES THE WORLD, TAKING THE TARIFFS, IS AN EXAMPLE, I THINK IT'S A FAIR POINT.

WHAT'S MISSING IS ANY SENSE THAT IT'S INFORMED AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY, FOR 80 YEARS NOW, TO BE A FRIEND, AN ALLY, HAS ADVANTAGES.

AND WHAT YOU SEE, EVERYONE IS TREATED EQUALLY.

AND SINCE WE TEND TO TRADE MORE WITH ALLIES, WE TEND TO INVEST MORE WITH ALLIES, THEY ARE MORE VULNERABLE TO AMERICA DISTANCING ITSELF OR INTRODUCING TARIFFS OR INTRODUCING SANCTIONS.

SO, I THINK, AGAIN, BOTH IN THE SECURITY SPHERE AND IN THE ECONOMIC SPHERE, WE'VE ENTERED AND ERA IN WHICH THE PRESUMPTION THAT BEING A FRIEND OF ALLY OF THE UNITED STATES GIVES YOU ADVANTAGES OR ASSURANCES OR PREDICTABILITY, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY NO LONGER TRUE.

>> SO, LET ME JUST ASK YOU TO HANG USAID PIECE ONTO THAT, BECAUSE THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, FOR 60 YEARS, SINCE JOHN F. KENNEDY IN 1961, WAS DESIGNED AS SOFT POWER TO ACTUALLY INCREASE AMERICA'S SECURITY SAFETY AND ALL THE REST OF IT, BY ALSO BEING GENEROUS AND KIND TO PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD.

IT'S INTERESTING, I HEARD THAT KENNEDY HAD BEEN INFLUENCED BY A BOOK CALLED "THE UGLY AMERICAN," THAT SAID THAT AMERICA WAS VIEWED AS JUST AN IMPERIALIST POWER, AND THAT A LOT OF THE WORLD WAS ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, BEING SUCKED INTO, AT THE TIME, THE USSR'S SPHERE.

AND NOW, THEY WERE SAYING THE UGLY AMERICAN HAS RISEN ITS HEAD AGAIN, AND CHINA IS THE NEW RIVAL WHO WILL BENEFIT.

WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHT ON THAT?

>> WELL, THE LAST POINT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

WE'RE GOING TO CREATE VACUUMS OF SUPPORT.

NEW DEPENDENCIES THAT THE UNITED STATES IS UNWILLING TO MEET, NOT UNABLE TO MEET, BUT UNWILLING TO MEET.

AND YES, CHINA WILL BE THE PRINCIPLE BENEFICIARY OF THAT.

IT WILL ALSO BE A BENEFICIARY OF THE TARIFFS, BECAUSE COUNTRIES WILL LOOK TO DIVERSIFY THEIR ECONOMIC PORTFOLIO, BECAUSE DEPENDENCE ON THE UNITED STATES NOW HAS BECOME A SOURCE OF VULNERABILITY.

AND I TAKE YOUR LARGER POINT, THE UNITED STATES IS TRADITIONALLY STOOD FOR SOMETHING LARGER THAN A NARROW SELF-INTEREST IN THE WORLD.

WE HAVE HAD A HUMANITARIAN DIMENSION.

THAT SEEMS TO BE MISSING NOW.

MUCH MORE TRANSACTIONAL AND CALCULATED.

EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE LIKE ME WOULD MAKE THE CASE THAT SOME OF WHAT WE DO IN THE AREAS, SAY, OF HEALTH, IS IN AMERICA'S RECEIVE INTEREST.

BECAUSE AS WE LEARNED, SAY, WITH COVID-19, DISEASES THAT START ELSEWHERE DON'T RESPECT BORDERS.

SO, THERE'S A SELF-INTEREST OF KEEPING THE WORLD HEALTHY.

ALL THAT SEEMS TO BE GONE, AS ELON MUSK AND OTHERS SEEM INTENT, WHAT WAS HIS PHRASE, FEEDING USAID INTO THE WOOD CHIPPER.

>> YEAH, IT'S -- IT'S BEEN DESCRIBED AS CAPRICIOUS AND CRUEL, ACTUALLY.

THERE ARE ACTUALLY PEOPLE WHO ARE CURRENTLY, YOU KNOW, REPORTING THAT THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, STARVING OR THEIR HEALTH IS IN DIRE NEED, AND IT'S ACTUALLY REALLY WEIRD TO WATCH THE U.S. DO THAT.

I WANT TO KNOW, THEN, DO YOU THINK THIS AMERICA FIRST STUFF, AND THE EVIDENCE OF THE FIRST FEW WEEKS, WILL MAKE AMERICA THE WINNER, OR IS IT A -- IT IS A LOSS PROPOSITION?

>> WELL, IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHERE IT'S GOING TO GO, BUT THE INITIAL -- MY INITIAL TAKE ON IT IS NOT REASSURING.

YOU REFERENCED GAZA.

I THINK WHAT WE'RE DOING -- THAT'S A NONSTARTER.

WE'LL SEE WHAT WE -- WHETHER WE'RE PREPARED TO NEGOTIATE A NUCLEAR DEAL WITH IRAN, MAYBE.

WE'LL SEE WHAT THE DETAILS ARE OF ANY CEASE-FIRE WITH UKRAINE.

NO CLEAR SIGNALS WHATSOEVER ON WHERE -- TO WHAT EXTENT AND WHERE THE UNITED STATES IS PREPARED TO PUSH BACK AGAINST CHINA IN THE SOUTH CHINA SEA OR, SAY, OVER TAIWAN.

AND THEN, THERE'S A LOT OF TALK ABOUT SPHERES OF INFLUENCE.

YOU MENTIONED THAT QUOTE BEFORE, SIGNALING THAT UKRAINE MAY ONE DAY BE PART OF RUSSIA.

THE MISSING SIGNALS ABOUT ASIA, THE TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THEPA THE 51st STATE.

THIS PUTS IN MOTION WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL A WORLD OF THREE SPHERES OF INFLUENCE, AND THAT IS A WORLD THAT'S MUCH LESS FREE AND MUCH LESS SAFE AND MUCH LESS PROSPEROUS.

>> INDEED.

AND LASTLY, ON GAZA, I MEAN, IT WAS REALLY QUITE PAINFUL TO SEE A STRONG ISRAELI AND STRONG U.S.

ALLY, THE KING OF JORDAN, SIT THERE WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP, AS HE SAID, HE WAS GOING TO ESSENTIALLY KEEP GAZA AND INVITED JORDANIANS AND THE EGYPTIANS TO TAKE ALL THE PALESTINIANS FROM THERE.

IT -- I MEAN, EVERYBODY HAS DISMISSED IT, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT'S ABOUT?

AND THE PRESIDENT OF EGYPT HAS BASICALLY SAID, I'M NOT GOING, IF THIS IS STILL ON THE TABLE.

I'M NOT GOING TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> LOOK, IT WAS A HUMILIATING DAY FOR THE -- AN ALREADY CHALLENGED KING OF JORDAN.

PRESIDENT SISI DOESN'T WANT TO PUT HIMSELF IN THE SAME POSITION.

I THINK THE TRUMP PLAN IS A NONSTARTER.

I THINK IT POTENTIALLY ENFLAMES THINGS, NOT JUST IN GAZA, BUT ALSO ON THE WEST BANK, BECAUSE IT GIVES FUEL TO THE NOTION OF TRANSFER AND ANNEXATION.

SO, I ACTUALLY THINK THE ARABS WOULD BE SMART, THE JORDAN YANS, THE EGYPTIANS, THE SAUDIS, THE UAE AND OTHERS, TO PUT FORWARD A PLAN OF THEIR OWN.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE TRUMP PROPOSAL, I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DON'T, TO PUT FORWARD AND ALTERNATIVE, SAY, HERE'S WHAT WE'RE PREPARED TO DO ECONOMICALLY AND MILITARILY IN GAZA, WE'RE WILLING TO WORK WITH NON-HAMAS PALESTINIANS, BUT HERE'S WHAT WE NEED FROM ISRAEL AND THE UNITED STATES.

I THINK THEY WOULD BE WISE, IF YOU WILL, TO REVERSE THE CON VERVE SAY, AND SAY, UNITED STATES, ARE YOU PREPARED, FINALLY, THIS PRESIDENT, TO LEAN ON THIS ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO GET THEM TO COME UP WITH A DAY AFTER POLICY?

A SCENARIO WHERE PALESTINIANS, IF THEY MEET CERTAIN CONDITIONS, CAN TAKE GREATER CONTROL OVER THEIR OWN FUTURE?

SO, THAT'S -- I'LL BE -- I'M SITTING HERE CURIOUS AND INTERESTED WHETHER THE ARABS SWITCH THE CONVERSATION TO PUT PRESSURE ON ISRAEL AND ON THE UNITED STATES IN TURN TO LEAN ON ISRAEL.

>> I WONDER HOW CURIOUS YOU ARE ABOUT THE PERSON THAT IS GOING TO HEAD THE DNI, THE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE, WAS JUST CONFIRMED TODAY, TULSI GABBARD.

WHO HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF HAVING PRO-PUTIN AND BACK THEN PRO-BASHAR AL ASSAD VIEWS AND SYMPATHIES.

I WANT TO PLAY FOR YOU WHAT THE FORMER HEAD OF MI-6 TOLD ME ABOUT THIS POSSIBILITY WHEN I INTERVIEWED HIM A FEW WEEKS AGO HERE IN LONDON.

>> TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS A DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE WHO BASICALLY TAKES A VERY PRO-RUSSIAN APPROACH, THAT STRIKES ME AS VERY DIFFICULT.

AND IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR AMERICA'S PARTNERS.

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH AN TELL JENS COMMUNITY WHERE THE MOST SENIOR FIGURE IN IT, THE CABINET MEMBER IN IT, IS BASICALLY SYMPATHETIC TO OUR BIGGEST ENEMY?

>> SO, HOW WOULD YOU ANSWER?

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT REALITY?

>> IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO HEAR BRITISH UNDERSTATEMENT.

THERE'S NO EASY WAY TO DEAL WITH THAT REALITY.

AND IT'S THE REASON THAT SO MANY PEOPLE I KNOW, SHALL WE SAY, DID NOT SEE THE LOGIC OR THE ATTRACTION OF THIS CHOICE.

THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE THIS PRESIDENT COULD HAVE CHOSEN WHO WERE -- DID NOT BRING THIS BAGGAGE, WHO ARE MORE QUALIFIED, AND I WORRY NOT JUST ABOUT COOPERATION WITH ALLIES, BUT I WORRY ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE ADVICE SHE'S GOING TO PRESENT TO THE PRESIDENT.

SHE'S THE ONE WHO IS IN CHARGE OF INTEGRATING THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY AND PROVIDING THE DAILY BRIEFS.

SO, IT'S AN IMPORTANT JOB, AND THERE'S -- YOU KNOW, WHEN ONE LOOKS AT HER BACKGROUND AND HER TRACK RECORD, IT'S HARD TO FEEL CONFIDENT.

>> AND VERY QUICKLY, THERE'S A FIVE EYES INTELLIGENCE OF ALL THE MAJOR ENGLISH-SPEAKING NATIONS.

ARE THEY GOING TO BE WILLING TO BE AS OPEN WITH THEIR INTELLIGENCE UNDER THIS CIRCUMSTANCE?

WITH THE U.S.?

>> MY GUESS IS THEY'LL DO SOME TESTING.

THEY'LL DO SOME EXPLORING.

AND THEY'LL SEE HOW THINGS ARE PROTECTED, AND IF NOT, I THINK YOU'LL SEE A NARROWNARROWING, A IF I MAY DO MY EXAMPLE OF AMERICAN UNDERSTATEMENT.

>> WELL, ON THAT UNDERSTATED NOTE, RICHARD HAASS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, IN THESE VERY TURBULENT TIMES.

>>> NOW, DONALD TRUMP'S CONTROVERSIAL POLICY MOVES ARE REVERBERATING AROUND THE WORLD, AS WE SAID, BUT HOW DID HE BECOME THE MAN HE IS TODAY?

"THE APPRENTICE," A FILM, SEEKS TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

IT CHARTS TRUMP'S RISE IN THE 1970s NEW YORK UNDER THE TUTELAGE OF THE NOTORIOUS LAWYER AND FIXER ROY COHN, PLAYED BY THE ACTOR JEREMY STRONG.

HERE'S A BIT FROM THE TRAILER.

>> ROY COHN.

NICE TO MEET YOU.

>> THE ROY COHN?

YOU'RE BRUTAL.

>> GUILTY AS CHARGED.

>> HOW DO YOU ALWAYS WIN?

>> THERE'S RULES.

THE FIRST RULE IS, ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK.

RULE TWO, ADMIT NOTHING.

DENY EVERYTHING.

THERE'S NEVER BEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS OF THIS MAGNITUDE, THIS QUALITY.

OH, CHEESE BALLS OVER HERE.

>> WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

YOU WANT ONE?

>> NO, IT LOOKS -- >> WELL, AFTER THE FILM WAS SHOWN AT THE CANNES FILM FESTIVAL, TRUMP'S LAWYERS SENT A SOUTHEAST AND DESIST LETTER .O AND TRUMP HAS ATTACKED THE FILM.

BUT DESPITE THE BACKLASH, THE STRUGGLE FOR FINANCING, AND FOR DISTRIBUTION, "THE APPRENTICE" HAS DONE VERY WELL, INDEED.

JEREMY STRONG RECEIVING AN OSCAR AND BAFTA NOMINATION.

JEREMY STRONG IS JOINING ME HERE NOW IN LONDON.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU, I'M HONORED TO BE HERE.

>> WELL, IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU.

IT'S SUCH A TIMELY FILM, OBVIOUSLY.

IT WAS DONE LAST YEAR, I GUESS YOU DIDN'T KNOW -- NOBODY KNEW WHO WAS GOING TO WIN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS WHEN IT CAME OUT.

WHEN YOU SEE IT NOW, SINCE THE ELECTION, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF IT?

>> I THINK IT'S TAKEN ON A WHOLE OTHER SORT OF HARROWING RESONANCE RESONANCE.

IT EXPLORES THE SORT OF EMBRYONIC STAGES OF DONALD TRUMP'S WORLD VIEW, I WOULD SAY.

AND THE INFLUENCE, THE MALIGN INFLUENCE OF ROY COHN, WHO SORT OF IMMRE KATE IMMPLICATED IN HI CODE FOR EVERYTHING THAT HE DOES NOW.

AND FILM CAN SORT OF SEND A TRANSPONDER AND BOUNCE IT OFF THE PAST TO SPEAK MORE VIVIDLY TO THE PRESENT, WHICH I THINK THIS FILM DOES, BUT SEEING IT NOW, TO ME, IT'S ABOUT A VERY LIVING DANGER, SO, I FIND IT TROUBLING, TO SEE THE FILM NOW.

>> I'M GOING TO PLAY A CLIP.

WE HAVE A FEW THAT YOU GUYS HAVE GIVEN US.

AND IT'S -- THIS FIRST ONE IS THE KIND OF GENESIS OF THE TRUMP/ROY COHN RELATIONSHIP.

SO, HE'S DEFENDING TRUMP AGAINST CHARGES OF COMMITTING RACIST PRACTICES IN HIS APARTMENT BUILDINGS, WHEN HE WAS A YOUNG REAL ESTATER, BY BLOCKING BLACK TENANTS.

THAT'S SOMETHING THE REAL DONALD TRUMP HAS STEADFASTLY DENIED, BUT HE SETTLED WITH THE PROSECUTORS AT THE TIME.

HERE'S THE CLIP OF THAT SCENE.

>> OBJECTION.

THE CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION DID NOT FILE A LAWSUIT, FRANKLY, IT COMPILED A 48-PAGE PRESS RELEASE, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL.

NOW, THE GOVERNMENT HAS FAILED TO SPELL OUT ONE SINGLE FACT CONCERNING ALLEGED DISCRIMINATORY PRACTICES AGAINST THE TRUMP.

>> OVERRULED.

COUNSELOR.

CONTINUE.

>> THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.

AGENT GREEN, WHAT LED YOU TO BELIEVE THAT YOU WERE DENIED A LEASE AT TRUMP PROPERTIES BASED ON YOUR RACE?

>> WELL, NOT ONLY DID THE NEWSPAPER -- >> THAT'S WALTER, DOJ.

HE RUNS THE SHOW.

>> I SAW THREE CALL CAUTION COUPLES -- >> OBJECTION, SPECULATION.

>> MR. COHN.

PLEASE ALLOW AGENT GREEN TO ANSWER THE QUESTION.

>> I'VE SEEN PUERTO RICANS WHITER THAN MY TUSH AFTER A LONG WINTER.

>> YOUR HONOR -- >> WELL, THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT ROY COHN WAS A LARGER THAN LIFE CHARACTER, AND SOME EVEN CALLED HIM CHARISMATIC, I MEAN, HE WAS INCREDIBLY POWERFUL, HE WAS A VERY POWERFUL LAWYER AND A DEFENDER OF THE McCARTHYITE SENATOR, AND HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL WITH TRUMP.

WHAT ABOUT ROY COHN, WHEN YOU WERE PLAYING THAT ROLE, WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?

WHAT WAS -- WHO WAS HE?

>> WELL, I -- IN A WAY, YOU'RE NOT REALLY THINKING ANYTHING WHEN YOU'RE DOING IT, BUT YOU'VE SPENT MONTHS AND MONTHS DOING A DEEP DIVE INTO -- INTO THE CHARACTER, INTO THE PERSON AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THEIR PSYCHE AND THEIR -- WHAT DRIVES THEM, AND -- YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY THAT COHN STOOD FOR A KIND OF AGGRESSIVENESS.

HE STOOD FOR A KIND OF BRUTE FORCE.

DISSIMULATION AND MISINFORMATION.

I SEE HIM AS ONE OF THE PROJEN OR THES OF FAKE NEWS.

HIS RELATIONSHIP TO THE TRUTH WAS VERY MALLEABLE.

AND HE HAD A FLAGRANT DISREGARD FOR THE TRUTH.

>> WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO THAT A BIT, BECAUSE HE KIND OF HAD TO LIE ABOUT HIS OWN CONDITION.

WE'LL GET INTO THAT IN A BIT.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU FIRST, THERE'S ANOTHER CLIP THAT WE HAVE, ESSENTIALLY WHAT COHN TAUGHT DONALD TRUMP.

TALKING ABOUT HOW HE SHAPED HIM TO BECOME THE ASCENDANT FIGURE THAT HE IS TODAY.

>> YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW I WIN?

I'M GOING TO LET YOU IN ON A LITTLE SECRET.

THERE'S RULES.

ROY COHN'S THREE RULES OF WINNING.

THE FIRST RULE IS THE SIMPLEST.

ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK.

>> CIVIL RIGHTS.

>> I HOPE THEY'VE GOT REAL MONEY, BECAUSE AFTER I GET YOU FIRED, YOU'RE SURE GOING TO NEED IT.

>> EXCUSE ME?

>> UNLESS YOU DROP YOUR BASELESS LITIGATION, I'M COUNTERSUING THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT FOR $100 MILLION, AND YOU ARE GOING TO RUE THE DAY -- >> WHO IS THIS?

>> IT'S ROY COHN, CALLING ON BEHALF OF MY GIANT, DONALD J. TRUMP.

>> I MEAN, IT'S BRUTAL, BUT HE WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL.

>> HE WAS EFFECTIVE AND HE WAS, I WOULD ARGUE, A GREAT LAWYER.

>> WHAT ARE THE THREE LESSONS?

THAT WAS ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK.

>> THE THREE LESSONS WHICH ARE SORT OF DISTILLED IN THE FILM, ARE ALWAYS ATTACK, DENY EVERYTHING, AND NEVER ADMIT DEFEAT.

AND WHEN YOU REALLY INTERNALIZE THAT AND TAKE THAT IN AS, YOU KNOW, AS I DID AND I THINK WHEN YOU SEE THE FILM, YOU CAN'T HELP BUT UNDERSTAND IT, IT BECOMES LIKE A DOG WHISTLE THAT YOU HEAR SORT OF UNDERNEATH EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENING NOW.

I REALLY THINK IT -- I THINK YOU CAN'T OVERSTATE THE INFLUENCE OF COHN ON -- >> DO THINK IT'S A FILM MORE ABOUT COHN THAN TRUMP?

>> WELL -- I WOULD SAY IT'S A FILM ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP.

I MEAN, IT'S -- IT'S A FRANKENSTEIN FILM, IN A SENSE, AND IT'S ABOUT THE CREATION OF, SORT OF DR. FRANKENSTEIN.

I WOULD SAY IT'S AS MUCH ABOUT HIM AS IT IS THE MONSTER.

>> BEFORE I GET A LITTLE BIT MORE INTO THE STORY, WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND?

HOW DID YOU GET OVER THIS FACT THAT AFTER THE, YOU KNOW, THE DEBUT IN CANNES, THEN THERE WAS THE CEASE AND DESIST FROM TRUMP, IT WAS POSTPONED ON AIR IN THE UNITED STATES, IT DIDN'T GET A WIDE DISTRIBUTION, FINANCING WAS DIFFICULT.

>> YEAH, IT'S BEEN A SORT OF BATTLE THE WHOLE TIME.

I MEAN, THERE WAS A SORT OF -- THERE WERE SORT OF TACIT THREATS OF REPERCUSSION FOR ANYONE WHO TOUCHED THE FILM OR WAS INVOLVED IN THE FILM.

I THINK ALL OF US MAKING IT WERE AWARE THAT WE WERE SORT OF TOUCHING THE THIRD RAIL, BUT I ALSO THINK, I MEAN, I WAS OUTSIDE IN THE STUDIO HERE, AND THERE'S A CNN SIGN ON THE WALL, AND IT SAYS "GO THERE" AND IF THAT'S NOT THE ROLE OF FILM AND STORYTELLING, IF YOU DON'T GO THERE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE POINT OF MAKING ART IS.

>> VERY GOOD POINT.

>> SO, THE FILM GOES THERE, AT A TIME WHEN I THINK THAT'S MORE NECESSARY THAN EVER, ATTEMPTS TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT SOMETHING, AND SPEAKING TRUTH TO POWER.

IN THIS MOMENT IS CRITICAL.

AND SO I THINK THAT CREATED A LOT OF FEAR IN -- IN THE MOTION PICTURE BUSINESS.

SOL THE SO THE MOVIE HAS HAD SORT OF AN ARDUOUS, THORNY ROAD TO THIS MOMENT, AND SEBASTIAN, WHO IS REALLY REMARKABLE, WHO PLAYS TRUMP, AND IT'S A REALLY UTTERLY FEARLESS PERFORMANCE, TRANSFORMATIONAL PERFORMANCE, SO, I -- YOU KNOW, I'M VERY -- IT'S VERY GRATIFY ING AND VALIDATING TO BE RECOGNIZED BY THE BAFTAs AND THE ACADEMY.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, AN INDUSTRY THAT WAS AFRAID AND DIDN'T WANT TO REALLY TOUCH IT, AND THERE'S A LOT OF FEAR GOING AROUND RIGHT NOW.

PEOPLE TALK ABOUT ANTICIPATORY OBEDIENCE OBEDIENCE.

AND YET, IT'S HAD THIS RECOGNITION.

HOW DO YOU COMPUTE?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S HAD A RECOGNITION FROM THE CREATIVE COMMUNITY.

>> YEAH.

YEAH, OKAY.

>> AND, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK -- AND I PROBABLY BOTH WERE AFFECTED OR INSPIRED BY CERTAIN KINDS OF COURAGEOUS FILMS THAT SPOKE TO THE WORLD WE'RE IN.

AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT A LOT ABOUT THE ADVICE TO THE PLAYERS, YOU KNOW, OUR ROLES TO HOLD THE MIRROR UP TO NATURE, AND SHOW THE AGE AND BODY OF THE TIME, ITS FORM AND PRESSURE.

SO, I THINK THAT THE FILM ATTEMPTS TO SHOW THE AGE AND BODY OF THIS TIME, ITS FORMATION, AND THE PRESSURES THAT HAVE LED US TO WHERE WE ARE NOW.

BUT I ALSO THINK IT'S A CAUTIONARY TALE.

I'VE BEEN TAKING MY KIDS AROUND LONDON, AND THERE'S THE FAMOUS CHURCHILL IN 1948, THOSE --THAT FAIL TO LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.

AND I THINK IN AMERICA, ESPECIALLY, IT OOS A COUNTRY THAT HAS HISTORICAL AMNESIA, AND THIS FILM IS A -- AN ATTEMPT TO REMIND PEOPLE OF WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH HERE.

>> YOU OBVIOUSLY ARE INCREDIBLY INTENSE, YOU TAKE YOUR CRAFT INCREDIBLY SERIOUSLY, IT'S NOT JUST ACTING, IF I CAN SAY THAT.

YOU PREPARE INCREDIBLY FOR IT.

YOU FAMOUSLY SAY YOU'RE NOT A METHOD ACTOR, BUT YOU DO REALLY DO A DEEP DIVE INTO YOUR CHARACTERS.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT, AND WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DEEP DIVE AND THE METHOD?

>> AH -- IT'S ALMOST HARD TO TALK ABOUT, BUT I GUESS -- I GUESS -- I TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY VERY SERIOUSLY.

I'M AN IMMERSIVE ACTOR.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY JUST ABOUT COMMITTING TO IT.

IT'S ABOUT GOING THERE.

AND SO, IN MY UNDERSTANDING, METHOD ACTING IS A SORT OF -- IS A TERM THAT REFERPS TO STRAUS STRAUSBURG AND A CERTAIN KIND OF ACTING THAT USES SENSE, MEMORY WORK, AND ALL THIS STUFF THAT I DON'T REALLY BELIEVE IN OR UNDERSTAND.

MY ONLY METHOD IS TO FOLLOW MY INSTINCTS.

BUT LIKE MOST GREAT ACTORS, THE ACTORS THAT I ADMIRE AND HAVE SORT OF BEEN INSPIRED BY, ARE COMMITTED TO WHAT THEY DO AND PUT THEMSELVES SORT OF, YOU KNOW, OUT THERE.

>> YOU HAVE PLAYED SOME PRETTY UNSAVORY CHARACTERS IN YOUR -- IN YOUR, YOU KNOW, OPUS, WHETHER IT'S IN "SUCCESSION," IF IT'S IN SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU'VE DONE.

YOU BECAME FAMOUS FOR A FAKE ON MACK YA VEL YAN CHARACTERS THAT ARE RIPPED FROM REAL LIFE.

BUT YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT NOW.

THE NEXT FILM IS GOING TO BE ABOUT SOMEBODY MORE JOYFUL, THE MENTOR AND THE PRODUCER FOR BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS?

I GUESS WHAT I'M SO INTERESTED IN, AND THIS FILM, AS WELL, BECAUSE WE'RE IN THIS AGE, WHERE EVERYTHING IS SO KIND OF HYPERPOLARIZED.

WE EITHER DIEIFY PEOPLE OR DEMONIZE PEOPLE.

AS AN ACTOR, YOU ARE LOOKING AT IT HUMANISTICALLY.

SHAKESPEARE WRITES THAT YOU HAVE TO SEE FEELINGLY.

SO, WE TRY TO 'EM PATHICALLY STUDY AND ENTER INTO A LIFE AND A SUBJECT, AND ENCAPSULATE THAT AND EMBODY IT AS BEST YOU CAN.

SO, I DON'T JUDGE THE CHARACTERS AS DESPICABLE OR MONSTROUS -- >> IT'S NOT DIFFICULT LIVING WITH THOSE UNSAVORY CHARACTERS?

>> IT TAKES YOU TO ASPECTS OF YOURSELF THAT I WOULD ARGUE ARE CONTAINED IN ALL OF US, AND PART OF, I THINK, WHAT'S HAPPENED NOW IS IS A DISAVOWEL OF CERTAIN PARTS OF OURSELVES AND OUR SOCIETY IN THE SHADOW OF IT IS RISING UP.

>> I DO WANT TO PLAY, BECAUSE YOU ALSO HAVE A CAPABILITY TO MAKE FUN OF YOURSELF, AND THERE WAS THIS FAMOUS AD, THE DUNKIN' DONUTS, AT THE SUPER BOWL, THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE EVER, AND HERE YOU ARE, BEING METHOD, IN AN AD, ALONGSIDE BEN AND CASEY AFFLECK.

>> JEREMY'S A METHOD ACTOR.

>> WHAT IS THAT?

>> ACTING METHOD.

FROM THE BOOK.

>> THERE'S A BOOK?

>> HE'S PREPARING.

DOING RESEARCH.

>> I NEVER DID NO RESEARCH ON NOTHING.

LOOK WHERE I'M AT.

>> EXACTLY.

>> YOU RUINED US.

>> DO YOU HAVE A BREAKFAST NAMED AFTER YOU?

>> OH.

>> HEY.

♪ WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN THERE?

>> WE'RE DOING A DUNKIN' DONUTS COMMERCIAL, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

>> I'M JUST TRYING TO FIND THE CHARACTER.

ACTING 101, WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE, HOW?

SO, I'M JUST TRYING TO TALK TO THE BEANS, IMMERSE MYSELF IN THE BEANS.

>> IT'S FUNNY.

>> IT'S AMAZING TO ME THAT I'M ON YOUR SHOW, HAVING SHOWN A CLIP FROM THAT COMMERCIAL.

YOU KNOW, IT WAS -- >> IT'S TOO FUNNY.

>> IT WAS A WAY OF SAYING THAT YOU CAN TAKE WHAT YOU DO EXTREMELY SERIOUSLY AND NOT TAKE YOURSELF ALL THAT SERIOUSLY.

THAT WAS ACTUALLY A QUOTE FROM LOUIE KHAN TALKED ABOUT LISTENING TO THE BRICKS, WHEN HE WAS BUILDING A STRUCTURE.

>> WHAT WAS ALL THAT BROWN STUFF?

>> COFFEE -- I WAS IMMERSED IN COFFEE GROUNDS -- >> REAL COFFEE?

>> LIKE A FRENCH PRESS.

>> THE STUFF WE THROW AWAY.

>> IT WAS JUST TO SORT OF HAVE A LAUGH AT MYSELF AND THIS IDEA -- >> WE'VE GOT 20 SECONDS, THERE'S A PHOTO WE HAVE OF YOU WAITING -- IN 1993, YOU -- YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU WANTED TO SEE THE STARS AND ALL THE REST OF IT.

I MEAN, IT'S A FULL CIRCLE MOMENT.

>> YOU KNOW, I WAS SORT OF SLIGHTLY CRINGED WHEN MY AGENTS WANTED TO SHOW THIS, AND THEN -- I HAVE YOUNG CHILDREN, AND I GUESS MY THOUGHT WAS, I HOPE THEY NEVER STOP BEING THAT OPEN.

>> NICELY DONE.

THANK YOU, JEREMY STRONG.

>> THANK YOU.

SO NICE TO TALK TO YOU.

>> GOOD LUCK.

>>> SO, WE TURN NOW TO A STORY OF SURVIVAL, STRENGTH, AND ACTIVISM.

THIS WEEK MARKS SEVEN YEARS SINCE THE PARKLAND SCHOOL SHOOTING, WHEN 17 STUDENTS AND STAFF WERE KILLED BY A FORMER STUDENT.

IT IGNITED A WAVE OF PROTESTS AND BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION.

IT'S THE SUBJECT OF A NEW DOCUMENTARY, DEATH BY NUMBERS, AND IT IS NOMINATED FOR AN OSCAR, WHICH LOOKS AT THE JOURNEY OF ONE SURVIVOR, SAM FUENTES.

FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS, GUN VIOLENCE HAS BEEN THE LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH FOR CHILDREN AND TEENS IN THE U.S. AND SCHOOL SHOOTINGS HAVE SEEN STARK INCREASES OVER THAT TIME.

THERE HAVE BEEN FOUR THIS YEAR ALREADY.

SAM FUENTES AND THE FILM'S DIRECTOR, KIM A. SNYDER, JOIN HARI AGAINST THE REALITY OF A TRUMP EXECUTIVE ORDER WHICH IS AIMED AT ROLLING BACK GUN CONTROL MEASURES.

>> SAM, KIM, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

SAM, YOU ARE A SURVIVOR OF A HORRIFIC DAY IN AMERICAN HISTORY THAT UNFORTUNATELY IS TOO COMMON, AND IT WAS THE SHOOTING AT STONEMAN DOUGLAS HIGH SCHOOL IN PARKLAND, FLORIDA, AND I WONDERED, YOU KNOW, YOU, IN THIS FILM, ARE SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT JUST SPEAKING AS A SURVIVOR, BUT REALLY, ALMOST AS A VOICE OF A GENERATION HERE, THAT HAS BEEN IMPACTED SO DEVASTATINGLY BY GUN VIOLENCE.

AND I'M WONDERING, FIRST, I GUESS, HOW -- HOW ARE YOU DOING NOW?

>> WHAT A THOUGHTFUL QUESTION.

UM -- I THINK, ESPECIALLY AS THE ANNIVERSARY APPROACHES, IT'S ALWAYS TOUGH, YOU KNOW?

I THINK ESPECIALLY WITH THE SYMPTOMS OF PTSD, LIKE, EVEN IN MY EVERYDAY LIFE, IT STILL IMPACTS ME.

THERE'S NOT REALLY A DAY WHERE I'M NOT SORT OF THINKING ABOUT THAT DAY AND ALL OF MY COMMUNITY AND HOW TOUGH IT IS FOR THEM.

AND -- BUT OVERALL, I THIS I, BECAUSE I'M VERY MUCH ENGAGED WITH MY OWN TRAUMA AND I'VE WORKED THROUGH IT, A LOT THROUGH THERAPY, WRITTEN WORD, THAT'S BEEN VERY EMPOWERING FOR ME OVERALL.

>> YOUR WORDS ARE KIND OF A FRAME FOR THIS WHOLE FILM, I MEAN, WHETHER IT'S YOUR JOURNAL ENTRIES OR HOWEVER IT IS THAT YOU CHOSE TO EXPRESS YOURSELF, IS THAT -- WAS THAT PART OF THIS THIS, I GUESS, TRAJECTORY OF HEALING?

>> I THINK SO, FOR MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, I'VE BEEN WRITING MY ENTIRE LIFE, AND IT'S ALWAYS BEEN SOMETHING OF A COPING MECHANISM, IT'S AN OUTLET FOR ESCAPISM.

AND SO, I THINK IN TERMS OF MY OWN HEALING, WRITING HAS ALWAYS BEEN BY MY SIDE.

AND FOR IT TO NOT BE INCLUDED IN THIS STORY WOULD BE VERY ODD, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE "DEATH BY NUMBERS" WAS ACTUALLY CONCEIVED THROUGH A LARGER PIECE OF WORK THAT I WROTE BY THE SAME NAME.

>> BEING ABLE TO DIRECTLY ADDRESS HIM IS ANOTHER FORM OF JUSTICE.

HE AFFECTED MY LIFE IN NOT JUST A LITERAL, PHYSICAL WAY, BUT IN A PSYCHOLOGICAL AND MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL WAY THAT WILL BE EVERLASTING, AND I DON'T -- I DIDN'T GET TO CHOOSE THAT, SO, IF I GET TO CHOOSE ANYTHING, IT WILL BE THIS.

>> KIM, HOW DID YOU FIGURE OUT TO TELL THIS STORY AT THIS TIME, AND THEN REALLY, HOW DID SAM'S WORK, EVERYTHING KIND OF ENTE GRATE TOGETHER INTO THIS FILM?

>> SURE.

WELL, IT EMANATED IN A SENSE, I'VE BEEN IN THIS SPACE WITH A LONGTIME PRODUCER.

WE HAD DONE A FILM CALLED "NEWTOWN" BACK IN -- GOT RELEASED IN 2016 ABOUT THAT HORRIFIC DAY WE ALL CAN'T FORGET, OF THE KIDS AT SANDY HOOK, AND WE BECAME IMMERSED IN THAT SPACE.

AND SOME HAPPENSTANCE LANDED US TO TELL THE STORY OF SAM AND HER CLASSMATES, AS THE STORY OF ACTIVISM THAT GREW UP IN RESPONSE TO HER SHOOTING.

AND THEN THERE WAS THIS NEXT STORY THAT WE -- I COULDN'T LET GO OF, THAT REALLY WAS ABOUT SAM MOVING THROUGH THE TRIAL OF HER SHOOTER, AND TRYING TO RECLAIM HER POWER IN CONFRONTING HIM.

AND THAT WAS A STORY I FELT HADN'T BEEN TOLD, AND IT WAS IMPORTANT BOTH IN TERMS OF REALLY RAISING AWARENESS ABOUT YOUTH TRAUMA IN OUR COUNTRY, AND THE FALLOUT FOR OUR YOUTH, AND ALSO IN HER BRAVERY, IN JUST STANDING UP TO HATE, THAT GOES BEYOND GUNS OR EVEN OUR -- THE BORDERS OF OUR OWN SCOURGE OF IDIOSYNCRATIC HORRIBLE GUN VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> YOU KNOW, IF IT'S NOT TOO DIFFICULT FOR YOU, AND PERHAPS WE CAN DO A LITTLE BIT OF JUSTICE TO NOT THINKING ABOUT THIS SHOOTING AS JUST A SET OF NUMBERS, CAN YOU TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MAYBE ONE OF THE FRIENDS THAT YOU LOST AND YOU STILL THINK ABOUT?

>> OF COURSE.

SO, A FRIEND OF MINE WHO I HAD KNOWN SINCE ENGLISH FRESHMAN YEAR WAS NICK WHO WAS, UNFORTUNATELY, KILLED BESIDE ME IN MY CLASS.

HE WAS EXCELLENT, I MEAN, HE WAS SMART, HANDSOME, HE WAS ONE OF OUR BEST SWIMMERS AT OUR SCHOOL.

ARGUABLY IN THE STATE.

WE ALWAYS SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO MAKE IT TO THE OLYMPICS.

AND SOMETHING ABOUT HIM ALWAYS JUST MADE ME LAUGH, AND MAKE ME FEEL COMFORTABLE.

HE WAS THE KIND OF PERSON WHERE HE WAS OUTGOING AND CHARISMATIC, BUT DIDN'T HAVE AN EGO ABOUT IT.

AND I -- I MISS HIM ALL THE TIME, AND I KNOW HIS PARENTS MISS HIM ALL THE TIME, HIS FAMILY MISSES HIM ALL THE TIME.

AND THERE'S NOT A DAY THAT GOES BY THAT WE'RE NOT THINKING ABOUT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE LEGACY OF THE 17 PEOPLE THAT WERE LOST.

>> KIM, I WANT TO ASK, YOUR ACT OF CHOICE TO INCLUDE SO MUCH OF THE TRIAL IN THIS FILM, INCLUDING THE DECISION TO BLUR OUT THE SHOOTER'S FACE EVERY TIME THE AUDIENCE MIGHT SEE HIM, WHY DID YOU DO THOSE THINGS?

>> WELL, THAT WAS A COLLECTIVE DECISION BETWEEN SAM AND MYSELF.

WE WERE DEFINITELY COLLABORATORS ON ALL OF THESE THINGS, AND WE THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO BE IN KEEPING WITH SOMETHING A LOT OF SURVIVOR COMMUNITIES HAVE CALLED NO NOTE RYETY THAT WE KNOW THERE'S EVIDENCE OF COPYCATTING, WE DON'T WANT TO GLORIFY THESE SHOOTERS.

AS SAM POINTED OUT SO BOLDLY IN HER -- IN HER STATEMENT TO HIM THAT HE WOULD NEVER GET THE FAME HE WAS SEEKING.

YOU KNOW, RATHER THAN ACTUALLY BLURRING, THERE IS THIS IDEA OF X-ING, YOU KNOW, DERIVED FROM THE IDEA OF SAM'S JOURNAL, HER THOUGHTS, AND IT WAS IMPORTANT THAT WE NOT GIVE HIM THAT NOTORIETY, BUT WE DID MAKE A CHOICE AT THE VERY END, WHEN SHE FINALLY TAKES THE AGENCY TO FINALLY LOOK HIM IN THE EYE HERSELF, THAT THAT IS THE ONE TIME THAT WE DECIDED, SHE GETS TO DECIDE WHEN -- WHEN HE SHOULD BE STARED DOWN AND CALLED OUT.

>> I ASSURE YOU, YOU WILL NOT BE FAMOUS FOR THIS.

I ASSURE YOU THAT OUR PEOPLE WILL BE ACCOUNTED FOR, THEY'LL GROW AND HEAL DESPITE YOU.

YOU HAVE NO POWER ANYMORE.

YOU HAVE NO FUTURE.

YOU HAVE NOTHING.

THE PEOPLE THAT YOU KILLED WILL HAVE A LEGACY MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU.

AND THE PEOPLE WHO NEARLY KILLED WILL LIVE THEIR LIVES, THOUGH WITH MUCH DIFFICULTY, WITH A COMPASSION AND A DIGNITY IN WAYS YOU WILL ONLY DREAM.

>> I MEAN, IT WAS AN INCREDIBLY POWERFUL STATEMENT, AND I WONDER WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO PREPARE IT, TO DELIVER IT, DID IT HELP, GETTING THAT OFF YOUR CHEST?

>> I THINK OVERALL, IT'S ONE OF THOSE ULTIMATUMS THAT I'LL LOOK BACK IN MY LIFE, WHICH IS, DO I CONFRONT THE PERSON WHO COMMITTED THIS TERRIBLE ATROCITY ATROCITY, AND SPEAK MY TRUTH TO POWER, OR DO I LIVE FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE KNOWING I DIDN'T DO THAT?

AND SO, I THINK WITH THIS ONE OPPORTUNITY, THE DECISION WAS REALLY OBVIOUS TO ME.

AND I KNEW THAT PEOPLE LIKE HIM, AND THE FEAR HE WANTED, RAGE, HE WANTED YOU TO COMPLETELY LOSE CONTROL IN HIS PRESENCE.

HE WANTED TO KNOW THAT YOU STILL FEARED HIM, AND I KNOW TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, AND FORGIVE ME FOR PHRASING IT THIS WAY, BUT THEY GET OFF ON STUFF LIKE THAT.

AND EVEN THOUGH I KNEW IT WOULD BE FRIGHTENING AND I WAS FRIGHTENED AND JUST SORT OF MORTIFIED ALTOGETHER, I KNEW THAT I HAD TO APPROACH IT IN A WAY THAT WAS WITH RESTRAINT AND WITH RESPECT AND WITH DIGNITY.

BECAUSE HE WANTED TO SEE ME SUFFER AND HE WANTED TO CONTINUE THAT SORT OF REIN OF TERROR.

AND I KNEW THAT CONFRONTING HIM WAS A LOT LARGER THAN MYSELF.

IT WAS -- IT WAS -- IT WAS FOR MY COMMUNITY, IT WAS FOR EVERYTHING WE HAD LOST, IT WAS FOR EVEN JUST A LARGER DECLARATION OF POINTING HIM OUT TO THE PERSON HE WAS AND SPEAK SPEAKING TRUTH ABOUT HIM.

I THINK HE REPRESENTS SORT OF THIS LARGER ISSUE AT PLAY, AND THAT'S WHY I KNEW THAT DESPITE THE FEAR AND DESPITE THE SORT OF ANXIETY THAT I HAD SURROUNDING THIS DAY, I NEEDED TO DO IT, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT SORT OF KEPT ME CALL, WAS THAT I KNEW I HAD MY WHOLE COMMUNITY BEHIND ME, AND IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT I THINK, WHEN I LOOK BACK IN MY LIFE, I CAN SAY WITH GREAT CONFIDENCE THAT I DID THE RIGHT THING.

>> THE SHOOTER DID NOT GET THE DEATH PENALTY, HE WAS SENTENCED TO LIFE BEHIND BARS, AND I WONDER, DID YOU HAVE ANY INITIAL RESPONSE, HOW YOU FELT ABOUT IT THEN, HAS THAT CHANGED OVER TIME?

>> IT'S STILL SOMETHING THAT I FEEL VERY UNCERTAIN ABOUT.

I -- I KNEW THAT AS FAR AS POSITION IN THE FILM, THE DEATH SENTENCE WAS SORT OF NEVER REALLY IMPORTANT TO US, BECAUSE I UNDERSTOOD AND WAS ALSO FEELING THAT, I DON'T THINK THAT EITHER SENTENCE WOULD HAVE BROUGHT CLOSURE AND COMPLETE AND ABSOLUTE JUSTICE FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

GRIEF AND TRAUMA ARE INCREDIBLY DIVISIVE, AND EVERYONE HAS A UNIQUE SORT OF EXPERIENCE AND INTERPRETATION OF THEIR OWN LOSS, AND I THINK THE TRIAL OVERALL WAS VERY CRUEL AND VERY UNUSUAL IN THE SENSE THAT IT RETRAUMATIZED OUR ENTIRE COMMUNITY, AND TOOK UP SO MUCH TIME AND SO MANY RESOURCES, AND WAS JUST ALSO IN GENERAL A LOT OF THE CONDUCT WAS A DISGRACE.

SO, THE SENTENCE WASN'T REALLY SO IMPORTANT TO ME.

AT THE END OF THE DAY.

>> KIM, THIS IS NOT YOUR FIRST FILM ABOUT SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

THIS IS A TOPIC THAT YOU TALK ABOUT A LOT.

I DID AN INTERVIEW FOUR YEARS AGO, FOCUSED ON THE RESPONSE AFTER THIS HORRIBLE ATTACK.

UNFORTUNATELY, ONE OF THE REPORTERS THAT WENT AND SAT IN THE LIVING ROOM OF SOME OF THE SURVIVORS OF THE NEWTOWN SHOOTING.

AND I THOUGHT AT THAT TIME, I THOUGHT, THIS IS DEFINITELY A LINE TOO FAR.

SOMETHING WILL HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY, RIGHT?

AND HERE I AM, AND THERE WERE 39 SCHOOL SHOOTINGS LAST YEAR.

AND I -- I DON'T THINK THEY'RE GOING TO STOP THIS YEAR.

AND I WONDER, HOW -- AS YOU CONTINUE TO WORK IN THIS, AS YOU CONTINUE TO TRY TO TELL THESE PAINFUL STORIES, WHAT IS THIS BACKGROUND IN AMERICA MAKE YOU THINK?

>> WELL, AS YOU SAID, IT'S -- ON ONE HAND, INCREDIBLY DEMORALIZING.

MY RELATIONSHIPS WITH SOME OF THOSE SAME FAMILIES HAVE ENDURED FOR OVER A DECADE NOW.

AND THEY'RE VERY CLOSE AND I THINK ONCE YOU BECOME CLOSE, YOU CAN'T RELENT, YOU JUST SORT OF CAN'T TURN YOUR BACK ON JOINING FORCES, BECAUSE THEY DON'T RELENT.

AND THEY ARE SO COURAGEOUS, THE COMMUNITIES THAT I HAVE OBSERVED, LIKE THOSE IN NEWTOWN, IN SAM'S COMMUNITY, THE YOUTH THAT ROSE UP.

OUR, YOU KNOW, WE NOW SEE IT IN UVALDE.

THERE'S SO -- DETERMINED NOT TO RELENT IN THE HONOR -- IN HONOR OF THOSE SLAIN, AND SADLY, THAT CLUB THAT NO ONE WANTS TO BELONG TO JUST GROWS BIGGER AND BIGGER.

SO, ON ONE HAND, IT'S INCREDIBLY DEMORALIZING, ESPECIALLY IN THESE LAST WEEKS, WE JUST CAME BACK FROM SUNDANCE, AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S A TIME WHERE A LOT OF THE WORK OF SAM AND HER COLLEAGUES, THE AGE -- THE WORK THEY HAVE DONE TO GET THE AGE RAISED TO 21 HAS NOW BEEN REVOKED.

WE SEE SOME REAL DISAPPOINTING MOVEMENTS IN THAT WAY.

BUT AT THE OTHER -- ON THE OTHER HAND, SINCE THAT TIME OF NEWTOWN, I ALWAYS SAY THAT THE VOICES OF NEW MESSENGERS HAVE GOTTEN STRONGER.

A TEACHER FRIEND IN NEWTOWN, WHO SURVIVED THAT, WHO STARTED A WHOLE NEW -- A WHOLE NEW GROUP, TEACHERS UNITED AGAINST GUN VIOLENCE, WE'VE SEEN LAW ENFORCEMENT STEP UP, WE'VE SEEN DOCTORS WHO FELT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED BACK THEN, WHO, YOUNGER DOCTORS WHO ARE NOT KEEPING QUIET.

WE SEE CLERGY.

THAT GIVES ME SOME HEART.

AND IT'S MOSTLY THE YOUTH.

BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ONE OF SAM'S COLLEAGUES, DAVID HOGE, WAS E LEGGED AS VICE CHAIR OF THE DNC.

I HAVE FAITH THAT THEY WILL NOT RELENT, AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF YEARS, SO, MY PESSIMISM AND OPTIMISM IS LIKE ANY MOVEMENT.

I HAVE FAITH IN THEM THAT SOMETHING WILL -- SOMETHING WILL TAKE HOLD, AND I THINK RIGHT NOW, THE BIGGEST HOPE SHORT-TERM IS BEHAVIORAL CHANGES, AND STORIES LIKE THIS AND VOICES LIKE SAM, THE BEST I CAN DO IS TO CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT THEY PIERCE THROUGH THE NUMBNESS.

WE CAN'T STOP REMINDING PEOPLE.

WE CAN'T JUST ACCEPT IT.

AND WE CAN'T BECOME A SOCIETY JUST THAT ACCEPTS THAT THIS IS THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF YOUTH.

WE OWE IT TO THEM TO DO BETTER.

>> SAM, JUST THE OTHER DAY ONLINE, I SAW SOMEONE THAT ESSENTIALLY USED WHAT HAPPENED AT YOUR SCHOOL AS, IN HIS OWN BRAIN, JUSTIFICATION FOR WHY THERE SHOULD BE MORE GUNS IN SCHOOLS, IN THE HANDS OF TEACHERS AND EVERYONE ELSE.

AND I KNOW THAT YOU'VE NOW ENGAGED IN THIS TOPIC FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS ANY SORT OF A SOLUTION?

WHAT ARE STEPS THAT THIS COUNTRY CAN TAKE TO TRY TO DECREASE THE VOLUME OF THESE TRAGEDIES?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF PREVENTATIVE ACTION, YOU KNOW, IN THE MOST OBVIOUS SENSE, CAN BE SEEN THROUGH LEGISLATION.

BUT I KNOW THAT IN THE NEXT COPPING YEARS, WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF THESE GUN LAWS, MOSTLY STATE LEVELS, BUT ALSO ON FEDERAL LEVELS, SORT OF BE ROLLED BACK ON.

I THINK BILLS AND LEGISLATION ARE ALSO, OBVIOUSLY, WHAT EVERYONE THINKS IS THE FIRST SORT OF ACTION THAT WE CAN TAKE, THIS LOOK LIKE UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS, THIS LOOKS LIKE RAISING THE AGE FROM 18 TO 21, WHICH WAS SOMETHING WE ACTUALLY SAW IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, AND WE'RE ROLLING BACK ON.

RED FLAG LAWS.

SAFE STORAGE LAWS.

THINGS OF THAT SORT OF NATURE SAVES LIVES.

BUT WHAT I NEED TO MAKE VERY CLEAR IS THAT GUN VIOLENCE SORT OF IS AN UMBRELLA, AND IMPACTS AMERICA IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.

60% OF IT IS SUICIDE.

WHICH IS TO SAY THAT BECAUSE IT IS A MULTIFACETED ISSUE, WE HAVE TO SORT OF APPROACH IT IN SORT OF VARIOUS DIFFERENT STRATEGIES AND ANGLES.

AND SO, IN ADDITION TO -- LAWS ARE IMPORTANT, BUT HAVING, LIKE, SAFE REPORTING SYSTEMS, YOU KNOW, IN SCHOOL AND SUCH, IS ALSO IMPORTANT FOR KIDS TO SEE AN HISSUE AND CAN REPORT CHILDRN IS HUGE.

HAVING, YOU KNOW, RESOURCES LIKE MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES AND COUNSELORS AND AFTERSCHOOL PROGRAMS, TO SORT OF KEEP VIOLENCE AND -- OUT OF SCHOOLS AND THE VISIBILITY OF THE HEALTH AND THE WELL BEING OF OUR COMMUNITIES IS ALSO HUGE.

THAT'S -- WE SEE THIS THROUGH A LOT OF GRASSROOTS EFFORTS WITH, YOU KNOW, CITIES THAT HAVE PROGRAMS THAT SORT OF INVEST IN DE-ESCALATIONS OF VIOLENCE, AS WELL AS PROVIDING, YOU KNOW, RESOURCES TO COMMUNITIES THAT ARE MORE FROEN OR TARGETED TO GUN VIOLENCE.

WE HAVE TO ADVOCATE FOR LAWS ON, YOU KNOW, THE BIG FRONT, THE FEDERAL, ON FEDERAL HILL, ON OUR STATE LAWS, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO BE MINDFUL OF OUR OWN COMMUNITIES, AND ENGAGE IN CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR NEIGHBORS, AS WELL AS, YOU KNOW, SUPPORT PROGRAMS THAT, YOU KNOW, KEEP THE VISIBILITY OF OUR PEOPLE UP, AND THE WELL BEING OF THEM UP, SO THAT THERE'S LESS REASONS TO TURN TO VIOLENCE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> FILMMAKER KIM SNYDER AND WRITER AND SURVIVOR SAM FUENTES, THE FILM IS CALLED "DEATH BY NUMBERS."

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US.

>>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, IT'S ONE OF THE HIGHEST HONORS IN THE MUSIC WORLD.

THIS YEAR'S NOMINEES FOR THE ROCK 'N' ROLL HALL OF FAME HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED.

AMONGST THEM, MARIAH CAREY, OASIS, AND CYNDI LAUPER.

THE 71-YEAR-OLD STAR IS CURRENTLY HERE IN THE UK ON HER FAREWELL TOUR.

WHEN WE SPOKE AHEAD OF THE U.S. LEG, SHE EXPLAINED WHY NOW IS THE RIGHT TIME TO TAKE ONE FINAL FEMINIST BOW.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW WE OCCUPY HALF OF THE GLOBE, HAVE BECOME SECOND CLASS CITIZENS, AND DON'T HAVE THE HEALTH CARE THAT WE NEED OR THE AUTONOMY OVER OUR OWN BODIES.

KIND OF CREEPY TO ME.

BUT I'M HOPING WITH THIS TOUR, I CAN BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER, I CAN CONTRIBUTE AND HELP.

AND MAKE THINGS A LITTLE BETTER INSTEAD OF THE SEPARATION AND THE BIG DIVIDE.

>>> AND THAT'S IT FUR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING, AND JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

♪