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>> Thanks so much for joining us for this edition of Donnybrook.

Great to have you back.

We sure appreciate it.

This the program before Valentine's Day and St.

Louis's birthday, which is this weekend.

Let's first meet the panelists and we'll talk about the St.

Louis issues.

There she is, the media veteran herself in red.

Lady in red, Wendy Wiese, Mr.

Bill McClellan from the Post Dispatch.

He's got some red on.

And also from the Post and STLday.com, Joe Holleman with red.

And from the St.

Louis American, oh, you've got it in saratoral splendor, Alvin Reiid.

I forgot.

I'm sorry.

I'm wearing blue in honor of >> Tell I say that this tie is a Valentine's Day tie from Bay Dugan.

>> Oh, right.

And I I forgot last year, Charlie, but I will remember this year.

Happy birthday, Mom.

She will be 90 on Valentine's Day.

>> That is fantastic.

Well, I'll be darn.

Uh where do we start?

How about with you, Joe?

Um couple of things.

two area officials on completely different sides of the immigration and detention issue.

First, Alicia Sier, a member of the board of alderman in the city of St.

Louis, wants a 5-year moratorum on detention facilities in the city that are not operated by the city of St.

Louis.

And that could include ICE detention facilities, immigration customs enforcement.

Then there is Senator Eric Schmidt, junior senator from the great state of Missouri who uh even though I don't see too many illegal immigrants running around Missouri, he wants to crack down on it.

First of all, if you hinder or hamper uh those who are working for ICE, he wants to increase the penalties there.

He wants to increase the penalty for entering the country illegally from a misdemeanor to a felony.

He wants to increase the penalties for those who re-enter illegally.

He wants to crack down on not forprofits that incite people to riot against federal authorities.

You get the message, >> right?

I I think there's especially in Schmidt's bill, there's a uh and first of all, when you say for the state of Missouri and that he is a US senator, so the law would be for the whole country, not just for Missouri.

So, >> right.

Okay.

>> But he does represent Missouri, >> right?

But he's also putting out a bill that would apply for the whole US.

So, >> how many people are in Missouri is not necessarily gerine to it.

But the point being is is that part of it is a nuts andbolt sort of thing.

Increasing penalties for people who come here illegally.

I think the thing from a misdemeanor to a felony uh is something that uh would grab attention uh by I believe it's 30 years or possibly for people who uh have been deported and come back in again illegally.

Uh the other one about the NOS's, I'm not sure how you make that stick.

Uh I I think that one may be more a little bit more of uh wishful thinking uh than there is.

And the other one is basically to sort of put a finer point uh if it's needed on that it's illegal to interfere with a federal agent e uh executing their duties.

I'm not sure how, but I think this is trying to address not here where anybody was actually going up and grabbing agents, but we're putting their cars in between ICE agents pursuing people.

So, there's a little bit of everything in that four-point bill, whereas Alderwoman uh Sier's bill um is modeled after a Kansas City bill.

City of Kansas City passed a similar bill saying uh ICE can't rent a facility to have a detention center.

uh that bill from several people I talked to, including Schmidt when I talked to him and others said that bill probably would run into uh a problem with the fact that you can't make local laws to stop the federal government.

So, >> you know, on Sonia's uh thing, it it just doesn't make sense to poke the bear.

You know, I mean, everybody people are either afraid of Donald Trump or they should be.

He's a very vindictive man.

And if I were Cara Spencer, I would be saying the last thing I want to do is provoke a fight.

So I I think that that's uh silly, well-meaning, but silly.

And Eric Schmidt, my big question is what happened to the Eric Schmidt that we all knew when he was a state senator and a reasonable fellow and now I I I suspect he wants to be J. D. advances >> running made, but like some of this stuff is just overboard.

>> Well, well, I would just I I think with Eric Schmidt, I I will say that he's got this four-point plan, but the first point is how do I when I'm shining in the president's shoes, how do I make them brighter?

And I think that's what this is all about.

Um, as far as the detention center, I don't know if it would be lawful or not.

But at the same time, if we had a situation here like uh they had in Minneapolis, I don't think we would be calling an effort like that silly or don't poke the bear.

I think there would be more of a in I want to call it incentive, but I think how we react to it would be a little bit different.

Son also seems to be very concerned about possible, you know, the rounding up of of homeless people in in the city and then, you know, keeping them um there.

But I think Eric Schmidt, we have to remember that there really are two Americas at least.

And Eric Schmidt speaks for a huge swath of people.

>> I don't know.

I don't I will say this, Eric Schmidt does represent Missouri.

I'd like to see this US senator try and get FEMA to respond for the first time to North St.

Louis and the damage from the earthquake.

He should be I mean tornado.

>> I mean there was a tornado.

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Unless you know something.

>> No.

Uh it looks like an earthquake hit it and you know uh there was a time when like Kit Bond and Roy Blunt, they would have been bringing the money home.

This guy has done nothing for the tornado victims to date.

Okay.

We're still waiting for FEMA to jump in.

And then when it comes to the supremacy clause, like can you really have uh any sort of uh local laws that supersede federal rules like a detention center or whatever?

Well, what about the Second Amendment Protection Act, which he advocated, which said that local law enforcement could not cooperate with the feds on gun rules.

He's completely flip-flopped on that.

I not to mention the fact that we don't have an immigration problem in the state of Missouri.

>> Well, why is he concentrating?

>> Well, at the end of the day, Charlie, the supremacy clause doesn't depend on Eric Schmidt.

The supremacy clause is something that's been adjudicated over centuries to where a local can't say to the federal government.

You can't do this.

So, if you want to beat up on Eric Schmidt, that's great.

But that has nothing to do with the Supremacy.

>> He wanted local police officers to hinder the feds.

>> What does that have to do?

What does that have to do with this bill?

And now he doesn't want >> What does that have to do with this bill?

>> Now he at the time he wanted local police to hinder the feds.

Now he doesn't.

>> That is not how I remember it, but I know you're absolutely right.

But he has been in Washington longer.

Now he's got his sights set at something going on in the executive.

And he I mean I'm sorry it's politically expedient.

This is a little bit off topic, but when Eric Schmidt was attorney general, we all remember, and then Andrew Bailey, they did nothing about the illegal gambling machines.

And I think that Katherine Handway deserves a shout out here that she's finally saying they're illegal.

I'm going to do something.

>> And and you know, I mean, Andrew Bailey took that bizarre stance of, well, they gave me money.

I can't do anything for them.

It's like a a bribe and Eric Schmidt just ignored him.

>> Did Eric Schmidt complain when the riers were attacking police officers on Capitol Hill on January 6?

Of course not.

Of course not.

I mean >> I mean I just I'm still my question is is is are you arguing that Eric Schmidt's a bad person or that the supremacy clause doesn't exist?

>> No, I'm saying that I'm not sure he's fit to be US senator.

>> Well, the voters >> I really don't I don't think he's qualified.

>> I think he Well, he qualifies.

Again, there's laws that say here's what you need to qualify.

And then you ask the people through North St.

Louis last week and nothing is going on.

>> I would I would agree with you in this that and I'll just put it this way.

I don't think Senator Schmidt is representing the state of Missouri.

I think he is representing the president of the United States.

>> And I think that is something that the next election that involves Eric, >> the people of Missouri can choose.

Hang on a second.

We just I I have to interrupt you because we are getting an important announcement.

>> Uh we're going to Okay.

The Flash.

We have just learned that the St.

Louis Media and History Foundation has named Alvin Reed into its hall of fame and he will be inducted in official ceremonies April 23rd, 2026 at 6:00 p.m.

>> Are you kidding?

>> Congratulations, Alvin.

Okay.

I honestly did not know this.

I was thinking this was like some like really something terrible happened.

Well, something terrible has happened when I was the first ballot choice.

>> Oh my gosh.

I don't know what to say.

Oh wow.

I'm I'm I'm taking it back.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm I'm very honored.

Um I know Dan Martin is uh involved with that and so I >> I just don't know what to say.

I I >> Dan Martin, Dan Dylan, Frank Abure.

>> Okay.

>> Well, I'll tell you what.

>> See you guys.

>> Now you can sign your name.

Alvin Reed.

HF.

>> H. Congratulations, Alvin Reed.

>> Wow.

>> And we'll give you more ticket information >> as we move on.

>> I'm going to invite Eric.

>> You should invite Eric.

>> Come on, Eric.

>> Yeah, we're all pass April 23rd.

>> Uh, moving on.

>> You really scared us.

I don't know about anybody else, but I thought something awful.

>> I thought you were in on it.

Okay.

>> I No, I am.

>> How How about uh San Page County Executive says he's going to close two county pools this summer because of lack of funding.

One is the Saint Vincent Aquatic Center in Normandy and the other Wendy is the Wayne Kennedy Aquatic Center in South County.

Plus, he's going to close a satellite office of the county in Chesterfield.

And the other offices are going to close at uh 3:30 PM.

>> I mean, they're closing pools, >> children, outdoor exercise.

>> Do you not care?

>> According I mean, last last week, the only thing I cared about were seniors.

So, if the seniors can swim, that's all I care about.

Of course.

Of course I care about the kids and the pools.

These were two pools.

And I want to say that I commend uh outgoing County Executive Sam Page because what he's trying to do is what he's supposed to be doing and that is saving the county money.

And these are two pools that are not receiving many visitors over the uh over the summer months.

Uh they both need major uh reconstruction in terms of of their water lines and and that sort of thing.

So I think that makes sense.

Whether that will come to pass is another that's another question because you've got, you know, you have uh the representatives of those areas who will certainly have something to say about it.

The Chesterfield satellite office, that's not a big deal.

But uh I mean, well, I'm sorry.

>> Did you ever go there?

>> Yes, I did.

>> It was a big deal.

>> Yes, I did.

But that's, you know, he's trying the man's trying to save money, >> you know.

I mean, I I've defended Sam Page often on this.

But Sam Pa's major problem is he couldn't get along with the board.

I mean, and even the Democratic members, maybe them especially, and that's just a terrible failing for a leader, and and and this is all part of that.

And and Sam getting even with people as he goes out.

Well, but I think that it it could be that, but I think that if I had to cut a budget, okay, it would be great to cut a budget after I decided I was not going to run again and the primaries in August.

And maybe this is the first time that he's actually free to do his job.

So, I I also think that if you I think if you tell people we're going to close the pool here, we're going to close the pool there, all of a sudden people start working on how do we find the money to keep the pool open.

So maybe that's a little, you know, method to the madness.

Yeah.

Right.

Sure.

>> Well, and I I think it's one of those sort of good news, bad news.

I like the idea of being frugal with the money.

>> I do think it is a little bit suspicious that one of the pools is in Rita Herd Days's ward.

The other one's in Mark Harter's ward, the office, and the other one's in Mike Archers.

Two Republicans and a Democrat, uh, Ridda, who he doesn't like.

>> Okay.

So, I mean, okay, you looked at this giant government budget, and I didn't see any cuts in the county executive's office that could have been made, >> and they just voted to the next county executive could get a raise after they changed their mind.

Now, that's interesting because he probably dropped that on them after right after they voted to the next county.

>> I'm sorry.

I got to stick up for the pools.

I mean, this summer, we talked about the pool in East St.

Louis.

It's not open.

And now we've got a pool in Normandy and one in South County.

They're not going to be open.

It's exercise.

It's outdoors.

It's good for the kids.

>> But if it might be a really hot summer traffic, I agree with you.

>> And I I I do too.

I want every I want there to be pools for all children.

But if >> Well, apparently not.

I mean, >> well, you also have to pay for things.

That's right.

>> Well, find some place else to cut it.

I'm absolutely for that.

Absolutely for that.

You know, >> but this is because they couldn't work out a budget, right?

And you know, and like I say, that some of the blame has to be on Sam Page.

>> But now the $8 million that or whatever the hole was that they were in.

That wasn't all on Sam Page.

That was that was the entire county government.

So he's just a person that's got to like, you know, the buck stops or starts with me when we're talking about cutting the budget.

So I can't he's got to go.

>> He wants to increase the use tax, which is probably long overdue, and the county council doesn't want to put that on the ballot again.

So uh I don't know.

the the county right now has a trouble with the uh animal shelter and the jail and now >> and that tax on products bought on the internet, >> right?

>> Hey, I've always favored that.

>> Alvin, I want to go to Kirkwood now and find out uh how you feel about a city on or rather a house on North Taylor that was purchased by a fellow by the name of Harlon Sorcin I believe and he wants to tear it down.

Although the building has historic value, it uh was built in the 1850s and it's in the historic district.

Some neighbors are saying, "Why would you tear down a historic building if you have a historic district?"

And then the city of St.

Louis wants to tear down six buildings, uh, schools, the Stowe, the Scullan, the Gonac, the Uklid, the Hemstead, and one other I can't remember.

Uh, some of them are William B. Ner prized pieces of architecture.

He's a worldrenowned architect who's on the St.

Louis Walk of Fame and we're going to be tearing down his architecture this summer.

Well, okay.

As for Kirkwood, um when I say years ago, this would have been, I guess, you know, about 2010.

There was another home on North Taylor.

And for some reason, I think it it was the Edison home, but maybe not like Thomas Edison, but something like that.

And um you know, the same battle was put forth.

Ultimately, the house was torn down.

Now, there's like a little culde-sac there with some modern homes uh in it.

I wish you could save every historic home that there is, but at the same time, I don't have a $100 to throw at the project.

So, thus, I just I I have to stand down on it.

I I wish you could save it, but people just need to step up and say like, "We've got the money.

We're going to buy it from you.

We're going to renovate it.

we're going to make it take it back to its original splendor.

But if you're not coming from that angle, I just don't know what you can do or what you could say.

>> But what what confuses me and I think a lot of other people Alvin is that I'm sorry, Mr.

Hall of Fame um off is that this particular buyer, Mr.

Sorcin and his wife, they knew about the historical background of the home and then three months later they want to bulldoze it and that seems like you're misrepresenting yourself to the buyer.

Mrs.

Mrs.

Glenn, Mary Glenn, I believe that that was her name.

Um what's the point of having any kind of historical um acknowledgement in any area if if somebody's going to move in and then decide we want a bigger bathroom, you know that it you there has to be something with teeth.

>> It does seem like they could have bought a different place.

Exactly.

I mean when it does sound like they misrepresented their ideas, although maybe that woman would have said, "Hey, I'm just trying to sell my house."

>> And I think that might have been it.

Also, um, you know, any project, I guarantee you they say like, you know, it'll cost you about $200,000 to fix up this house.

And once they got in the house, they found out it would cost $500,000 to fix the house.

I'm not excusing them.

I wish they had not purchased it and someone did who could actually do all this work.

Uh, but like I said, once again, somebody's got to step up.

Same thing with the schools, >> you know.

Well, do you want historic districts?

Do you consider architecture art?

And if it is if architecture is art, why would you destroy it?

If it's the heritage of your >> It's also in a historic district.

Not to say that if the old house is not in the historic district, just bulldoze it.

But okay, Kirkwood, you named it, so let's save it.

>> Well, and I I think there's a difference between the situation in Kirkwood, which is in a historic district drive.

So, you kind of got that then these six schools.

And I'll applaud you for being able to name five of those six, but I'll bet you before this story came up, you had no idea about four or five of those schools.

These are not historically significant.

They're old.

We have other Williamer buildings.

Now, unless there's some great boon to where we're going to make a lot of money doing William tours around town.

You can't save every piece of everything every artist did.

So, what I want to know is I'm all for saving those schools.

Who's going to pay for them?

And how?

Because right now I'm paying for >> school is breathtaking.

>> You know, one of the saddest things is to see an old abandoned school.

I mean, it just makes you think, "Oh my gosh."

And I I think that if they're hard to renovate, I think you have to take them down.

I >> I think for uh good tourism purposes and just for good history, you should preserve what you can.

We tore down too many mounds.

We tore down the 5135 Kensington uh meet me in St.

Louis house.

We ch tore down Chuck Barry's home.

It just makes me sick.

>> So, you save them all?

>> We have beautiful architecture.

>> Who pays for these schools?

Who pays for these schools?

>> Well, it's going to cost a million dollars a tear either.

>> It's going to cost a lot more because you're saying, would I listen to you that we just want to save them forever?

Maintain them forever.

>> That's pretty much accurate.

>> Okay.

How do you pay for that?

>> Well, the city taxpayers just keep paying property taxes to help pay that.

>> You You know what you do?

You send a little uh group to other cities that managed to do this whether it's Rome, Paris, Boston, Philly, Charlie, here.

Let's be Rome.

Let's be Paris, France.

You tell you tell me how to save those six schools with a plan to fund those schools and to maintain those schools so they don't become places for homeless people and fires get started in it and people get injured.

You figure out a plan to do that and pay for all that without we city taxpayers having to do it.

I'm all here.

You know where you know where abandoned schools are in rural areas.

Same.

This is not a a urban problem exclusively.

Go to a small town and I guarantee you there's two schools just in New Douglas, >> Illinois.

Got to go.

Got to move on.

Bill, I want to talk to you about uh a terrible tragic shooting on South Grand this week where a woman was sitting in her car and she was shot by a suspect.

Uh I believe uh his name is Keith Lamman Brown.

He's the suspect.

Uh turns out he was wearing a construction vest and uh the police believe that he had committed two other crimes wearing that same vest.

One at a Dollar General store, the other at a Jack in the Box.

Uh but they didn't release the surveillance videos of this guy.

So, uh people weren't on they weren't looking for him.

Did they make a big error by not releasing surveillance videos of this uh perpetrator who had you know he had he had armed robberies at these two other locations?

Well, I mean, obviously, when you look at what happened, that that was a mistake.

On the other hand, you know, we pat ourselves on the back that we have fewer murders, but we have all sorts of other crimes going on, armed robberies.

We don't even cover them in the paper.

I mean, they don't even make AGOT.

So to say that, you know, while the police have made a terrible error by not putting this out, I I don't think the paper would have run it had had it been put out.

Looking back on it, it was a terrible mistake.

And I saw Mitch McCoy on television and I thought he was kind of inappropriate saying that uh he hopes that the family has some kind of uh solace and that the police made a quick arrest.

And I thought, what's that about?

But, uh, a mistake.

But the sort of thing, like I said, we would not have run it.

I I think the thing that MCOY did that, uh, I had a problem with was he said that after the first two robberies where no one was killed, said we didn't know they were incredibly dangerous.

This was a person who pointed a gun at people's faces, robbed them, and then fired shots into the air.

So, I think the police need to redefine what incredibly dangerous means.

I think if someone's done that, they're already incredibly dangerous.

And I believe that possibly not our newspaper and the turnaround time uh to get it out the next day or online.

I think television, if you just said, "Hey, there's a guy dressed in a construction workers vest and a hard hat who's fired guns in the air."

All out of the Old West, just shooting the old six shooter in the air.

I believe television would have covered it.

I think they I I don't think they played it very smart.

And then to say, "Congratulate us for great police work and we didn't know they were uh incredibly dangerous."

I just all kinds of sour notes.

>> Yeah.

He said they were two completely different types of robberies.

And if >> a different gun >> and if you Right.

And if you alert the the public too soon, then you jeopardize the investigation.

>> I just every that one he was on a kind of little roll there and that somebody needed to snatch him back and say, "First of all, you aren't a police officer.

you know, you're the spokesperson for the police department.

And I think maybe Mitch forgets that sometimes.

And just this was one that was so chilling that I I texted my daughter that morning and I get I said like, "Hey, what you doing?"

And I knew she was, you know, at school and just I just wanted her to text me back and then afterwards I told her like, "I just didn't want to like >> I just was just making sure you were safe, you know."

So I think a lot of parents did that and it's just it's just horrifying.

Well, and the worst worst interpretation of what uh Wendy was was alluding to or referred to was this idea was well, we didn't want to alert the bad guys, so you let the public be bait >> so you could catch the bad guy.

Also not a good choice.

>> You know, there's there's times and then when you're criticized when you're in public life that you think, well, that's really not good criticism warranted.

But but you shouldn't just start being defensive about it.

I mean, like, this is a situation where obviously the the police ought to wish that they had done it differently.

And I think you're right, Joe TV would have 30 seconds to go.

>> Do do we think that uh Mitch McCoy was the proper person addressing the media or should the chief, given the gravity of this crime, should he have been answering questions?

>> I think the chief should have this one.

I I do believe that the chief should have been there, especially once you're going to debate whether or not this description and these pictures should have been released.

The chief should have been the one there discussing that.

Absolutely.

>> Uh and does that have implications for this guy's part-time job?

The chief of police is also working at the University of Missouri St.

Louis.

>> Well, we don't know he was there at the time of the press conference.

>> No, that's true.

Well, he wasn't at the press conference.

>> Well, I know, right?

But I don't know.

Maybe he was.

But the victim was a beloved member of True Man, >> right?

And real quick, I will say this.

I understand that if you were a black man with who who wears a hard-handed vest, it's unfair to you.

But thank you, Elvin.

Hey, let's go to the uh mailbag and see what the viewers had to say about last week's program.

Data centers are a terrible idea.

When the AI bubble bursts, we'll all be left with these huge abandoned facilities.

That from Barbara Our of St.

Charles.

We also heard from Greg Blatner.

Charlie was surprised that Massachusetts had fewer data centers than Missouri.

The principal reason, it's cheaper to operate in Missouri.

The cost per kilowatt hour in St.

Louis is about 1 half the cost per kilowatt hour in Boston.

Everett Lewis of Richmond Heights wrote, "Why not build data centers on the path of tornado destruction?

The data center owners will pay for all demolition as well as the relocation, new housing, and buyouts for any remaining inhabitants.

I just hope David Hoffman doesn't make a mess of the Post Dispatch like he has done to the Augusta Wine District.

That from Greg Macho of St.

Louis.

You can write us care of 9PBS 3655 Olive Street, St.

Louis, Missouri 63108.

Don't forget those emails, Donny Brook9pbs.org.

On social media, it's donnybrookst.

Call the 9ine 314-512994 and listen to us on your favorite podcast source.

Our program on YouTube is called Last Call.

In this week, we will get to discussing whether Memorial Stadium should be renamed and get some uh corporate money at the University of Missouri.

Plus, a billionaire is decrying the litter in the greater St.

Louis area.

We'll get into that.

Thanks so much for joining us.

Congratulations to Alvin.

Everybody, happy Valentine's Day.

See you next week.

Donny Brook is made possible by the support of the Betsy and Thomas Patterson Foundation and the members of Nine PBS.