>> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WE WILL GO FURTHER TO DEVELOP A COALITION OF THE WILLING TO DEFEND A DEAL IN UKRAINE AND TO GUARANTEE THE PEACE.

>> THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER CALLS THIS IS A CROSSROADS IN HISTORY.

EUROPE STEPS IN AS AMERICA GETS DANGEROUSLY CLOSE TO BREAKING THE TRANS-ATLANTIC ALLIANCE.

I WILL DISCUSS WITH THE FOREIGN FORMER SECRETARY RIVKIN AND THE PRESIDENT OF FINLAND, ALEXANDER STUB.

THEN UKRAINIANS STAND WITH THEIR PRESIDENT WHO THEY SAY STOOD UP TO TRUMP AND ADVANCE BUT THEY GET THE NEW DANGER AS WELL.

TOP JOURNALIST JOINING US FROM KYIV.

>>> TO THE MIDDLE EAST WHERE THE GAZA CEASE-FIRE HANGS BY A THREAD.

JEREMY DIAMOND REPORTS ON ONE ISRAELI MAN'S NEED TO FREE THE REMAINING HOSTAGES DESPITE THE TERRIBLE PRICE.

>>> PLUS -- >> I MEAN IT IS KIND OF A DREAM COME TRUE FOR AN ACTOR TO PLAY SUCH A COMPLICATED, INTERESTING PERSON.

>> MY CONVERSATIONS WITH THIS YEAR'S BIG OSCAR WINNERS.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATWOOD AND LESLEY WILLIAMS.

CANDICE KING WE'RE.

THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B.

PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND MICKEY STRAWS.

MARK J.DRESHNEY.

SETON J. MELVIN.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

CUE AND PATRICIA EWING, BRIDGING OUR COMMUNITIES.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH RODGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER IS LEADING THE WAY WITH EUROPE, TRYING TO PICK UP THE PIECES OF THE VERY PUBLIC RUPTURE IN THE TRANSATLANTIC ALLIANCE.

STARMER SAYS THAT WE ARE AT A CROSSROADS IN HISTORY.

PROPHETIC WORDS INDEED AS IN THE COURSE OF JUST ONE WEEK AMERICA HAS APPEARED TO PIVOT AWAY FROM PACKETS AMERICANA, ALIGNING ITSELF WITH RUSSIAN DICTATORSHIP AND AGAINST THE ALLY FENDING OFF THE INVADER.

FROM LAST MONDAY'S UNPRECEDENTED VOTE WITH RUSSIA AND A HOST OF ANTI-AMERICA JUNTAS AT THE U.N. TO THIS VERY DAY CONTINUING TO BERATE PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AFTER KICKING HIM OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE, AND EVEN A FEW DAYS BEFORE THIS BUSTUP KREMLIN SPOKESPERSON SAID, QUOTE, THE NEW U.S. ADMINISTRATION IS RAPIDLY CHANGING ALL FOREIGN POLICY CONFIGURATIONS.

THIS LARGELY COINCIDES WITH OUR VISION.

SURELY THAT IS A DANGEROUS FACT.

MANY U.S. REPUBLICANS ARE FALLING IN LINE THOUGH, BUT THERE ARE MIXED VIEWS.

THE REPUBLICAN SENATOR LISA MARKOWSKI SAID, I AM SICK TO MY STOMACH AS THE ADMINISTRATION APPEARS TO BE WALKING AWAY FROM OUR ALLIES AND EMBRACING PUTIN, A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY AND U.S.

VALUES AROUND THE WORLD.

BUT HOUSE SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON PRAISED TRUMP.

>> WE ACHIEVE PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH.

THAT WAS ALSO A REAGAN DOCTRINE.

SO WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS DOING IS RESTORING THAT PRINCIPLE.

HE IS A STRONG HAND RETURNED TO THE WHITE HOUSE AT A VERY PERILOUS TIME ON THE WORLD STAGE.

>> NOW, TODAY THE WHITE HOUSE WELCOMED EUROPE'S EFFORTS TO BROKER PEACE IN UKRAINE, BUT STILL WON'T SAY WHETHER THE U.S. WILL CONTRIBUTE IN ANY WAY.

LATER, TRUMP POSTED CRITICISMS OF EUROPE.

WHAT'S CLEAR IS THAT WE ARE IN NEW, UNCHARTED TERRITORY.

SO LET'S TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHICH WAY IS THE WAY FORWARD.

MALCOLM RIVKIN WAS FOREIGN SECRETARY IN JOHN MAJORS GOVERNMENT.

HE ALSO SERVED UNDER PRIME MINISTER MARGARET THATCHER AND HE IS JOINING ME NOW.

WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM, SIR MALCOLM RIVKIN.

LET ME ASK YOU AS A DIPLOMAT, AS A STATES PERSON FROM, I GUESS, TRADITIONAL CONSERVATIVE AND REAGAN VALUES, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THAT PUBLIC BUSTUP IN THE WHITE HOUSE ON FRIDAY?

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS ABSOLUTELY DREADFUL.

I THOUGHT THAT BOTH ZELENSKYY AND TRUMP BEHAVED VERY BADLY.

THEY WERE SHOUTING AT EACH OTHER, NOT LETTING THE OTHER SPEAK.

THAT WAS APPALLING IN FRONT OF ALL OF THE WORLD'S CAMERAS.

IF THAT'S WHAT TRUMP INTENDS, THEN HE HAD VERY POOR JUDGMENT.

>> DO YOU THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE IS OBVIOUSLY A LOAD OF PEOPLE, YOURSELF SEEM TO BE SAYING IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN AN AMBUSH.

WE CERTAINLY HAVE HEARD FROM MANY, MANY PEOPLE.

THE WHITE HOUSE DENIES IT, BUT THE NEW LEADER OF THE GERMAN ELECTIONS SAY IT LOOKED VERY MUCH LIKE A MANUFACTURED ESCALATION.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WAS OR NOT, AND TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST I THINK AT THIS STAGE IS NO LONGER RELEVANT WHETHER IT WAS OR NOT.

IT IS THE CONSEQUENCES THAT FLOWED FROM THAT.

I THINK THE FIRST POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAY, IF I MAY, IS THAT YES, THAT EVENING, THAT CONFRONTATION WAS A DISASTER FOR ZELENSKYY, BUT IT IS ALSO IN MANY WAYS A DISASTER OR POTENTIAL DISASTER FOR TRUMP.

HIS GREAT AMBITION AT THE BEGINNING OF HIS PRESIDENCY IS TO NEGOTIATE WITH PUTIN A CEASE-FIRE.

NOW, EVEN IF THAT NEGOTIATION SEEMED TO BE SUCCESSFUL, IT CANNOT BE IMPLEMENTED UNLESS ZELENSKYY AGREES BECAUSE ZELENSKYY CAN JUST CONTINUE FIGHTING.

HE CANNOT BE STOPPED EXCEPT BY A CONTINUATION OF THE WAR.

SO THERE'S JUST NOTHING RATIONAL IN WHAT TRUMP IS DOING UNLESS IT WAS A SHORT-TERM TACTIC.

NOW, I WAS INTERESTED AT THE END OF THAT GHASTLY EVENING, TRUMP SAID THAT ZELENSKYY COULD RETURN TO THE OVAL OFFICE, BUT ONLY IF HE IS COMMITTED TO PEACE.

WELL, THAT'S ACTUALLY A VERY LOW FORMULA, LOW BARRIER TO HAVE TO GET OVER.

ANYONE CAN SAY THEY'RE COMMITTED TO PEACE AND MEAN IT.

IT IS WHAT FLOWS FROM THAT THAT IS MORE RELEVANT.

>> LET ME ASK YOU.

LET'S DIG INTO THIS BECAUSE TRUMP SAID HE BELIEVES PUTIN REALLY WANTS PEACE.

TRUMP SAYS HE WANTS PEACE, WHICH I HAVE NO DOUBT ABOUT, AND THEY'RE NOW BLAMING ZELENSKYY FOR, QUOTE, NOT WANTING PEACE.

WELL, ZELENSKYY SAYS, OF COURSE WE WANT PEACE BUT WE NEED BACK STOPS, WE NEED DETERRENTS BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN THIS MOVIE BEFORE.

PUTIN SEEMS TO, AT LEAST IN THE PUBLIC UTTERANCES UNTIL NOW, HAVE MAXIMALIST GOALS WHICH INVOLVE THE ESSENTIAL SURRENDER OF UKRAINE.

WHERE DO YOU SEE THE POSSIBILITY, IF EVER, OF THESE TWO COMING TO SOME KIND OF ABILITY TO SIGN A REAL PEACE?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE CONFLICT IS ABOUT IN RELATION TO WHERE WE ARE AT THIS PRECISE MOMENT.

FIRST OF ALL, IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A CEASE-FIRE WITHOUT RESOLVING THE LONG-TERM ISSUES THAT DIVIDE TWO COUNTRIES, THE ONLY CREDIBLE AND HONORABLE WAY IN WHICH YOU CAN HAVE A CEASE-FIRE IS IF THERE ARE GENUINE COMPROMISES ON BOTH SIDES.

THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THE COMPROMISES WHICH ZELENSKYY WILL HAVE TO MAKE AND WHICH HE HAS BROADLY SPEAKING HIMSELF ACKNOWLEDGED, THAT UKRAINE WILL NOT BE PART OF NATO, AND THAT AT LEAST FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE THE RUSSIANS WILL REMAIN IN CONTROL OF THE TERRITORY OR MOST OF THE TERRITORY THEY CURRENTLY OCCUPY.

BUT WHAT ARE THE COMPROMISES THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS GOING TO DEMAND FROM MR. PUTIN?

THERE ARE NONE YET KNOWN, AND MR. TRUMP HAS DECLINED TO SAY.

SO THAT IS ONE ISSUE THAT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED.

THE SECOND ISSUE, AND IT IS A VERY IMPORTANT ONE, IS TO UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF WHAT ARE CALLED THE SECURITY GUARANTEES.

WE'VE ALREADY HAD TWO INVASIONS OF UKRAINE, ONE WHEN THEY ANNEXED CRIMEA AND THE NBAS AND THE SECOND WHEN THIS WAR BECAME.

IN BOTH OCCASIONS PUTIN WAS IGNORING PROMISES HE HAD GIVEN NEVER TO OBTAIN UKRAINE.

HE DID IT WITH THE BUDAPEST MEMORANDUM SOME YEARS AGO AND THEN WITH THE SO-CALLED MINSK ACCORDS.

HE BROKE HIS PROMISES.

IT IS NOT UNREASONABLE FOR ZELENSKYY TO SAY, HOW WOULD THE UNITED STATES REACT IF HAVING GOTTEN A CEASE-FIRE, PUTIN IN TWO YEARS TIME, THREE YEARS TIME INVADES UKRAINE AGAIN, WHAT WILL AMERICA DO?

WE KNOW WHAT EUROPE WOULD WANT TO DO.

WHAT WOULD AMERICA DO?

THAT IS WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS REFUSED TO RESPOND TO.

THAT'S WHAT PUTS HIM IN A VERY, VERY WEAK POSITION.

>> AND DO YOU THINK THE EUROPEANS -- I MEAN IT IS QUITE, YOU KNOW, REMARKABLE TO SEE THE PRIME MINISTER HERE AND HIS EUROPEAN COLLEAGUES GETTING TOGETHER AND TRYING TO DO THE ACTUAL WORK OF FIGURING OUT, YOU KNOW, DEFENSE EXPENDITURES, THE COALITION OF THE WILLING, ET CETERA.

BUT THEY KEEP SAYING, IT WON'T WORK WITHOUT A U.S. BACKSTOP.

BUT DO YOU THINK PENDING A U.S. BACKSTOP THAT THE EUROPEANS CAN FILL THIS GAP?

>> WELL, I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED OVER THE WEEKEND IS QUITE SINCE VERY EXTRAORDINARY AND VERY MUCH TO BE WELCOMED.

YOU MAY RECOLLECT IT IS ONLY A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WHEN PUTIN LAUNCHED HIS INITIATIVE TO HAVE A BILATERAL WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN AND HE ACKNOWLEDGED HE WOULD HAVE TO AT SOME STAGE TALK TO ZELENSKYY AND THE UKRAINIANS BUT HE TRIED TO FREEZE EUROPE COMPLETELY OUT OF THE OPERATION AS IF IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH EUROPE.

THIS WAS PURELY GOING TO BE BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND PRESIDENT PUTIN WITH THE UKRAINIANS OCCASIONALLY CONSULTED.

NOW, AS A CONSEQUENCE OF TRUMP, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S BEHAVIOR IN THE OVAL OFFICE AND ZELENSKYY'S, THE COLLAPSE OF THAT MEETING, THE EUROPEANS HAVE IN A CERTAIN SENSE BEEN THE FIFTH CAVALRY COMING TO THE RESCUE BECAUSE THE EUROPEANS, IN PARTICULAR THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER AND FRENCH PRESIDENT MACRON BUT WITH SUPPORT OF GERMANY AND OTHER COUNTRIES, ARE PUTTING TOGETHER A PACKAGE OF PROPOSALS.

NOT ONLY ARE THEY PUTTING THEM TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TO ZELENSKYY, THEY HAVE ALSO ALREADY HAD SINCE THE OVAL OFFICE CHAOS TWO CONVERSATIONS, I UNDERSTAND, WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP, AND HE HAS ACKNOWLEDGED WITH -- I DON'T KNOW WITH WHAT DEGREE OF ENTHUSIASM, THAT HE WILL BE PREPARED TO CONSIDER THEIR PROPOSALS.

SO HE IS ACKNOWLEDGING THAT EUROPE DOES HAVE A ROLE.

OF COURSE EUROPE HAS A ROLE.

UKRAINE IS A EUROPEAN COUNTRY.

EUROPE ARE THE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS OF UKRAINE AND THE COUNTRIES THAT WOULD BE INVADED IF PUTIN CONTINUED TO BEHAVE AS AN AGGRESSIVE STATE.

>> SIR, YOU AS I SAID BEFORE FOREIGN SECRETARY IN JOHN MAJORS' GOVERNMENT.

HE AFTER THE MUNICH SECURITY CONFERENCE TOOK THE UNUSUAL STEP, AS HE SAID HIMSELF, CAME ON THE RADIO TO RAISE THE ALARM.

HE SAID HE WAS APPALLED AND CONCERNED BY J.D.

VANCE'S STATEMENTS, BASICALLY ESSENTIALLY LOOKING TO THROW TRADITIONAL EUROPE UNDER -- YOU KNOW, UNDER THE BUS, TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THE SUPPORTING THE EXTREME PARTIES IN EUROPE AND BLAMING EUROPE FOR THEIR OWN PROBLEMS.

NEVER PRACTICALLY MENTIONING UKRAINE OR DEFENSE OR SECURITY, AND HE SAID, IF I WAS -- HE SAID, IF THEY'RE WATCHING, PUTIN AND XI ARE DANCING FOR JOY -- THOSE WERE JOHN MAJOR'S WORDS AND HE SAID THIS HERALDED A POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS REALIGNMENT IN THE WORLD.

DO YOU THINK THAT?

BECAUSE CAN EUROPE AND THE ALLIANCE RELY ON THE UNITED STATES TO MAINTAIN ITS 80-PLUS-YEAR ALLIANCE WITH THEM?

>> I HATE TO HAVE TO SAY IT.

IT GIVES ME NO PLEASURE WHATSOEVER, BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN RELY ON IT.

I HEAR WHAT OUR OWN PRIME MINISTER SAYS THAT HE TRUSTS MR. TRUMP AND MR. TRUMP WILL DELIVER AND ALL OF THIS SORT OF THING, AND I HOPE VERY MUCH THAT IT IS TRUE, BUT THERE IS SOMETHING BASICALLY IRRATIONAL ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP'S APPROACH TO THIS.

LET ME EXPLAIN WHAT I MEAN BY THAT.

HE'S CONSTANTLY SAYING, INDEED IT WAS THE SLOGAN OF HIS PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

NOW, AMERICA, OF COURSE, IS A GREAT COUNTRY AND DESERVES TO BE ONE, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THAT MAKES AMERICA GREAT IS NOT JUST AMERICA AS A SINGLE STATE BUT THAT SINCE THE CREATION OF NATO IN 1948 THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN THE LEADER OF THE GREATEST MILITARY ALLIANCE IN HISTORY, AN ALLIANCE NOW OF ABOUT 30 COUNTRIES, AND THE UNITED STATES' PRESIDENT, WHOEVER IT HAPPENS TO BE AND IT IS PRESIDENT TRUMP AT THE MOMENT, IS THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THAT ALLIANCE IF IT EVER NEEDS TO GO INTO COMBAT.

YET HERE WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO IS TRYING, IT WOULD APPEAR, TO WEAKEN AND DISMANTLE AND DISTANCE HIMSELF FROM THE REST OF NATO.

NOW, JUST TO ILLUSTRATE, IMAGINE IF IT WAS NOT PRESIDENT TRUMP BUT VLADIMIR PUTIN OR XI JINPING WHO HAD SOME MILITARY ALLIANCE OF 20 OR 30 COUNTRIES THAT WERE SO SUPPORTIVE OF THEM THAT THEY INTEGRATED THEIR MILITARY FORCES TO DEAL WITH ANY THREAT TO RUSSIA OR TO CHINA, AND IMAGINE IF PUTIN OR XI JINPING VOLUNTARILY, UNDER NO PRESSURE, DECIDED, I THINK I WILL GET RID OF THIS ALLIANCE, IT IS MORE TROUBLE THAN IT IS WORTH.

THE WHOLE WORLD WOULD BE DELIGHTED, BUT WOULD THINK WE WERE CRAZY.

>> WELL, I GET WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BY IMPLICATION.

SO WHAT DO YOU THINK THEN IS THE REASON, PARTICULARLY FOR TRUMP TAKING ALL OF THE KREMLIN TALKING POINTS?

I MEAN, LOOK, DELEGITIMIZING ZELENSKYY, DELEGITIMIZING UKRAINE, REPEATING THE SLOGAN OF UKRAINE GAMBLING WITH WORLD WAR III AND SAYING THAT UKRAINE HAS NO CAUSE AT ALL?

>> OKAY.

I'M NOT A SERVING DIPLOMAT.

I'M NOT A SERVING MINISTER.

I CAN SAY EXACTLY WHAT I FEEL, AND I RESPECT MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE IN POWER AT THE MOMENT.

THEY HAVE TO BE VERY CIRCUMSPECT.

BUT I THINK INSOFAR AS THERE IS AN EXPLANATION FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP'S APPROACH, IT ACTUALLY HAS VERY LITTLE TO DO WITH UKRAINE.

ESSENTIALLY HE SEES WHAT HAPPENS IN EUROPE AS SOMETHING HE PERSONALLY IS RATHER INDIFFERENT ABOUT, AND WHAT HE WANTS TO DO IS TO RECONSTRUCT THE WORLD SO THAT INSTEAD OF IT BEING A WORLD WHERE THERE IS A CONTEST, HOPEFULLY A PEACEFUL CONTEST OF IDEAS, DEMOCRATIC, RULE OF LAW LIBERALISM AGAINST AUTHORITARIAN POINTS OF VIEW AND AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENTS.

INSTEAD OF THAT HE WANTS TO SEE A WORLD WHERE THE GREAT LEADERS OF THE SUPERPOWERS, OF WHICH HE INCLUDES HIMSELF, QUITE UNDERSTANDABLY, AND PUTIN AND XI JINPING, ESSENTIALLY RATHER LIKE THE 19th CENTURY, THE CONGRESSES WHERE THE GREAT POWERS DECIDED WHAT THE REST OF EUROPE AND THE REST OF THE WORLD SHOULD DO.

NOW, THE PROBLEM, OF COURSE, FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP AND PRESIDENT PUTIN IS THAT THE WORLD HAS LONG OUTLIVED THAT KIND OF SITUATION.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A WORLD OF 180 COUNTRIES, MANY OF WHOM, INDIA, BRAZIL, SOUTH AFRICA, FRANCE, GERMANY, MANY, MANY OTHERS CANNOT SIMPLY BE BULLIED AND TOLD WHAT TO DO IN THE WAY THAT NOT JUST PRESIDENT TRUMP BUT PUTIN AND XI JINPING ALSO SEEM TO THINK IS ACCEPTABLE IN THE MODERN WORLD.

>> SO I MEAN IT IS REALLY, REALLY REGRESSIVE THE WAY YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IT.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ONE FINAL QUESTION ON INTELLIGENCE.

TODAY OR YESTERDAY THE U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY HEGSETH ANNOUNCED THAT THE U.S. IS STOPPING OFFENSIVE CYBER MANEUVERS AGAINST RUSSIA, AND THERE IS A LOT OF QUESTION ABOUT MEMBERS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION AND WHERE THEIR ALLEGIANCES LIKE, PARTICULARLY TULSI GABBERT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED THE U.S. DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE.

IN THE PAST SHE HAS PREVIOUSLY STATED PRO-RUSSIA POSITIONS.

HERE IS WHAT THE FORMER MI6 CHIEF JOHN SAUERS TOLD ME ABOUT INTELLIGENCE.

I WANT TO PLAY IT FOR YOU.

>> TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO IS DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE WHO BASICALLY TAKES A VERY PRO-RUSSIAN APPROACH, THAT STRIKES ME AS DIFFICULT.

IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR AMERICA'S PARTNERS AS WELL.

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH AN INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY WHERE THE MOST SENIOR FIGURE IN IT, SO THE CABINET MEMBER IN IT, IS BASICALLY SYMPATHETIC TO OUR BIGGEST ENEMY?

>> SO, SIR MALCOLM, THERE'S A LOT OF TALK ABOUT POTENTIALLY SHOULD THE FIVE EYES OR THE ALLIES KEEP SHARING INTELLIGENCE WITH THE U.S.

THIS IS WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

WHAT IS YOUR VIEW?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE HAS TO BE A QUESTION MARK FOR THE REASON THAT JOHN SAUERS HAS JUST BEEN EXPLAINING.

BUT I THINK THE ANSWER AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME DEPENDS ON WHETHER THE CYBER DECISION YOU MENTIONED A FEW MOMENTS AGO, WHETHER THAT IS PART OF A LONG-TERM STRATEGY OF DISMANTLING INTELLIGENCE COOPERATION OR WHETHER IT IS SIMPLY PART OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S CURRENT TACTICS TO GET ACROSS TO PUTIN THAT THIS IS AN UNPRECEDENTED OPPORTUNITY FOR PUTIN AND TRUMP TO GET TOGETHER AND SORT OUT THE PROBLEMS OF THE WORLD REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE REST OF THE WORLD THINKS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP LIKES TO MAKE GESTURES WHICH ARE IRRATIONAL IN THEMSELVES, BUT WHICH HE HOPES MAY BRING PUTIN TO BELIEVE THAT TRUMP IS HIS BEST FRIEND AND THAT THEY CAN WORK TOGETHER.

NOW, THIS MAY BE AN ENTIRELY MISTAKEN EXPLANATION I'M OFFERING, BUT IT IS THE ONLY THING THAT ADDS THE DOTS TOGETHER OTHER THAN SOMETHING FAR MORE DANGEROUS AND WORRYING.

>> OKAY.

VERY QUICKLY.

YOU WERE AROUND DURING MARGARET THATCHER, REAGAN, ET CETERA.

THEY CALL IT PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH.

THAT WAS A REAGANISM.

DOW THINK THIS LOOKS LIKE PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH, WHAT TRUMP IS DOING?

>> I HAVE NO DIFFICULTY WITH A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES USING STRENGTH, USING THE WHOLE STRENGTH OF THE UNITED STATES WITH ITS MILITARY BUT ALSO ITS POLITICAL POWER TO ADVANCE THE INTERESTS OF MANKIND.

THAT IS SOMETHING HIGHLY DESIRABLE.

THAT'S WHAT AMERICA HAS BEEN DOING SINCE 1948.

BUT IT IS NOT DONE SO BY DENOUNCING THE COUNTRIES THAT ARE INVADED BY AN AGGRESSOR AND SEEMING TO PRAISE THE AGGRESSOR AS AN ALTERNATIVE.

THAT CANNOT BE PART OF AMERICA'S TRADITION.

THAT'S NOT WHAT MAKES AMERICA GREAT IN THE PAST AND IT IS NOT WHAT MAKES AMERICA GREAT IN THE PRESENT OR IN THE FUTURE.

>> SIR MALCOLM RIVKIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED.

>>> AFTER A WHOLE WEEKEND OF THANK YOUS, HERE IS A MATCH-UP OF PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY THANKING OVER THE YEAR.

REMEMBER, OF COURSE, THE WHOLE WHITE HOUSE BUST-UP WAS BECAUSE HE WAS PERCEIVED NOT TO BE GRATEFUL ENOUGH.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, MR. PRESIDENT.

OF COURSE, THANKS TO MY PARTNERS IN SUPPORT.

THANKS TO CONGRESS.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THANK YOU.

>> FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP, LEADERSHIP, FOR YOUR SUPPORT.

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR STRONG SUPPORT.

>> WELL, NOW WE'VE GOT THAT CLEAR.

THE TASK FALLS TO EUROPE TO CREATE A COALITION OF THE WILLING AND TO TRY TO SECURE AN AMERICAN BACKSTOP PERHAPS.

SO CAN EUROPE ACHIEVE A LASTING PEACE AND WITH ENOUGH ENFORCEMENTS TO DETER PUTIN?

THE PRESIDENT OF FINLAND, ALEXANDER STUBB, WAS TAKING PART IN THE LONDON SUMMIT OVER THE WEEKEND AND IS JOINING ME NOW.

WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM, PRESIDENT STUBB.

CAN I JUST ASK YOU, HAVE YOU COME AWAY?

WHAT HAVE YOU COME AWAY WITH SINCE LONDON?

DO YOU FEEL A SENSE OF A PLAN, OF CONFIDENCE IN FILLING THIS BIG GAP THAT THE U.S. HAS LEFT?

>> YEAH, I MEAN I CAME OUT OF LONDON MUCH MORE OPTIMISTIC THAN I WENT IN BECAUSE WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST THREE WEEKS IS PRETTY MUCH EUROPEAN DIPLOMAT CACOPHONY.

WE HAVE SEEN ALL KIND OF FORMATIONS AND MEETINGS, AND I ALWAYS FELT THERE WASN'T REALLY A PLAN.

I DO THINK WE ARE STARTING TO SEE A SKETCH OF A PLAN AND, OF COURSE, FINLAND PUT ONE FORWARD A FEW WEEKS BACK IN THREE DIFFERENT PHASES.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE GRABBING ON TO THAT, LATCHING AND TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT UKRAINE CAN START WHATEVER NEGOTIATIONS BEGIN FROM A POSITION OF STRENGTH.

>> AND CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THIS PLAN IS?

>> YEAH, SO I MEAN THE WAY IN WHICH WE THINK ABOUT IT IS IF YOU WANT TO GAIN CONTROL OF A PROCESS YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN WHAT THE PROCESS IS.

FOR ME IT GOES IN THREE PHASES.

THE FIRST PHASE IS PRENEGOTIATION AND THAT'S WHEN YOU DO TWO THINGS.

YOU STRENGTHEN UKRAINE MILITARILY AND ECONOMICALLY AND YOU MAXIMIZE THE PRESSURE ON RUSSIA BY PUTTING ON MORE SANCTIONS, BY USING FROZEN ASSETS.

AND WHILE YOU DO THAT, YOU SET UP A SYSTEM OF SECURITY ARRANGEMENTS WHERE UKRAINE TAKES THE LEAD, EUROPE SUPPORTS AND THE U.S. HAS A BACKSTOP.

ONCE ALL OF THIS IS SETTLED AND WE CAN BE SURE THAT A CEASE-FIRE HOLDS, WHICH IT HASN'T HELD FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS.

ACTUALLY BROKEN BY PUTIN 25 TIMES.

THEN YOU GO INTO A CEASE-FIRE MODE, AND THE CEASE-FIRE CAN BE PARTIAL, IN THE AIR, LAND -- AIR AND SEA, OR IT CAN BEFALL IN THE LAND AS WELL.

AT THAT STATE YOU START TALKING ABOUT THE ACTUAL AGENDA OF THE PEACE NEGOTIATIONS, THE MODALITIES.

YOU START DOING CONFIDENCE-BUILDING MEASURES, YOU EXCHANGE PRISONERS, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

ONCE YOU ARE DONE THAT YOU GET INTO THE THIRD PHASE AND THE THIRD PHASE IS THE ACTUAL PEACE NEGOTIATIONS.

THIS IS A ROUGH SKETCH, OF COURSE.

IT HAS A LOT MORE DETAIL TO IT.

>> OKAY.

>> THOSE ARE THE TYPE OF ISSUES WE DISCUSSED IN LONDON YESTERDAY AND I THINK PUSHED THE BUCKET FORWARD.

>> THAT SHOWS THAT IT TAKES A LOT OF WORK AND IT TAKES -- IT IS A BIG PROCESS.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT KIND OF WORK THE AMERICANS, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS DONE IN THIS REGARD AS YOU ARE LAYING OUT FOR UKRAINE WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN?

HAS SUCH A PLAN BEEN LAID BEFORE PUTIN OR WHAT'S THE -- WHAT'S THE MODALITY?

>> WELL, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ATLANTIC, BUT WHAT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE WAS THAT EUROPE WOULD HAVE A STRATEGY BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MUCH SKIN IN THE GAME.

AFTER ALL, THIS WAR IS NOT ONLY ABOUT THE INDEPENDENCE, SOVEREIGTY AND TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY OF UKRAINE.

IT IS ABOUT MUCH MORE.

IT IS ABOUT EUROPE.

IT IS ABOUT THE FREE WORLD, AND IT IS ABOUT THE WORLD ORDER.

SO I FELT THAT EUROPE NEEDED TO GET HOLD OF IT, AND IF WE WANT TO BE PART OF THE NEGOTIATIONS, THEN WE NEED TO PRESENT THIS PLAN TO THE UNITED STATES AND SEE WHAT THE RESPONSE IS.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT THE U.S. NOW NEEDS YOU, HAVING ESSENTIALLY KIND OF BLOWN YOU OFF AFTER MUNICH AND THE SURPRISE MEETING BETWEEN SECRETARY RUBIO AND FOREIGN MINISTER LAVROV?

DO YOU THINK NOW YOU REALLY ARE NEEDED FOR THIS?

>> WELL, I CERTAINLY HOPE SO.

I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS BASICALLY ON TWO LEVELS.

ONE IS THE U.S./RUSSIAN BILATERAL RELATIONSHIP AND WHAT THAT ENTAILS.

THE SECOND ONE IS THEN THE NEGOTIATIONS ON HOW TO END RUSSIA'S WAR OF AGGRESSION IN UKRAINE.

IN ORDER FOR US TO BE RELEVANT AND NEEDED IN THOSE NEGOTIATIONS, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO BE PRESENT.

THAT'S WHY I ALSO THINK IT IS VERY IMPORTANT NOW TO MEND THE FENCES AND GET PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY AND PRESIDENT TRUMP BACK DISCUSSING BECAUSE DIPLOMACY IS BASICALLY ABOUT HAVING A CONVERSATION.

I PERSONALLY THINK THAT THE MINERALS DEAL THAT WAS, I MEAN, THIS CLOSE TO BEING SIGNED IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE PEACE PACKAGE BECAUSE THAT WILL THEN ACTUALLY PROVIDE DE FACTO SECURITY GUARANTEES FOR UKRAINE.

SO A LOT OF SHUTTLE DIPLOMACY GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

>> I WAS GOING TO GET BACK TO THE MINERALS IN A MINUTE BUT FIRST I WANT TO ASK YOU.

IS EUROPE PREPARED TO USE THOSE RUSSIAN FROZEN ASSETS?

RIGHT NOW YOU USE THE INTEREST FOR UKRAINE, BUT ARE YOU PREPARED TO USE THE $200 BILLION OR $300 BILLION EUROS FOR UKRAINE'S DEFENSE?

>> WELL, I HOPE EUROPE IS.

THERE ARE A COUPLE OF COUNTRIES THAT ARE STILL SKEPTICAL ABOUT THIS, AT LEAST ONE, AND THERE'S A EUROPEAN COUNCIL.

SO THAT'S THE EU LEADERS MEETING IN BRUSSELS ON THE 6th OF MARCH ON THURSDAY.

I THINK IF YOU WANT TO MAXIMIZE PRESSURE, USE THOSE FUNDS AND USE THEM RIGHT NOW.

I THINK IT IS A BIG AND IMPORTANT PART OF WHICHEVER NEGOTIATION WE GO INTO.

>> AND THEN I JUST WANT TO DIG DOWN ON WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT A SECURITY GUARANTEE.

THAT'S WHAT TRUMP SAYS, RIGHT?

THAT'S WHAT HE AND HIS PEOPLE SAY, A MINERALS DEAL, JUST THE VERY FACT OF HAVING A BUSINESS IS A SECURITY GUARANTEE.

ZELENSKYY DOESN'T THINK THAT'S ENOUGH OF A SECURITY GUARANTEE, AND, FRANKLY, NOBODY ELSE THINKS THAT.

THEY THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE -- WELL, NONE OF HIS ALLIES THINK THAT.

THEY THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE ENFORCEMENT, A U.S. BACKSTOP, ET CETERA.

TELL ME HOW YOU THINK IT -- YOU DON'T THINK IT IS SUFFICIENT, DO YOU, DO YOU THINK IT IS PART OF THE SECURITY GUARANTEE?

I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

>> OKAY.

SO THE WAY IN WHICH I THINK ABOUT IT, IT IS NOT A DE FACTO SECURITY GUARANTEE, OF COURSE, BUT IF THERE WAS A MINERAL DEAL THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THE UNITED STATES AND PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP WOULD HAVE A STAKE IN WHATEVER DEAL IS MADE ON PEACE LATER ON.

AFTER THAT, THE UNITED STATES WILL HAVE TO LOOK MORE SERIOUSLY ABOUT POTENTIALLY HAVING A BACKSTOP.

SO I THINK IT IS A GOOD BEGINNING OF GETTING THINGS GOING.

THAT'S WHY I THINK THE ACTUAL MINERALS DEAL IS SO IMPORTANT.

>> YEAH, YEAH, I GET IT.

YEAH, EVERYBODY THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD PRECURSOR.

ANYWAY, WHETHER IT GETS SIGNED OR NOT.

I WANT TO ASK YOU FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE KREMLIN.

WE HAVE BEEN REPORTING SEVERAL TIMES WHAT THE SPOKESPERSON, DMITRY PESKOV SAID.

HE SAID AFTER THE U.S. VOTE WITH RUSSIA AT THE U.N., THE NEW U.S. ADMINISTRATION IS RAPIDLY CHANGING ALL FOREIGN POLICY CONFIGURATIONS.

THIS LARGELY COINCIDES WITH OUR VISION.

SO YOU HEAR THAT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I'M AN AVID TRANS ATLANCIST.

I BELONG TO THOSE THAT BELIEVE WE SHOULD HAVE JOINED NATO LONG OGG.

I HAVE A WARM SPOT IN MY HEART FOR THE UNITED STATES AND THE TRANSATLANTIC ALLIANCE.

I AM SADDENED BY WHAT I HEAR FROM MOSCOW AND THE KREMLIN BUT REMEMBER THERE'S A LOT OF PROPAGANDA IN THIS.

RUSSIA WANTS TO CONVINCE THE WORLD, LOOK, AMERICA IS ON OUR SIDE AND NOT UKRAINE'S SIDE AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT FOR ONE BIT.

LISTEN, RUSSIA IS THE AGGRESSOR.

IT STARTED AN ILLEGAL WAR TRYING TO TAKE OVER AND BASICALLY DESTROY THE UKRAINIAN STATE AND UKRAINIAN IDENTITY.

IF AND WHEN THE UNITED STATES WANTS TO RETAIN ITS POSITION AS A SUPERPOWER AND THE LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD, IT CANNOT WALK HAND IN HAND WITH RUSSIA.

QUITE THE CONTRARY.

RUSSIA IS STILL AN ADVERSARY.

IF I MAY PUT ONE MORE POINT INTO THIS.

THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT THINK THAT PLAYING BALL WITH RUSSIA WILL DETACH IT FROM CHINA.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

RUSSIA IS SO DEPENDENT ON CHINA RIGHT NOW, WHATEVER DEAL YOU MAKE WITH RUSSIA IT IS GOING TO GO STRAIGHT INTO THE HAND OF CHINA.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE IN THE WEST HAVE TO THINK ABOUT.

NEVER TRUST PUTIN.

>> OKAY.

BUT THEN LET'S JUST TAKE THAT FORWARD BECAUSE TRUMP HAS BEEN SAYING HE TRUSTS HIM, AND THEN EVENTUALLY HE SAID TRUST BUT VERIFY.

HE HAS BEEN USING KREMLIN TALKING POINTS TO DELEGITIMIZE UKRAINE AND ZELENSKYY HIM.

WHY DO YOU THINK, IF IT IS A PROPAGANDA WAR OR WAR OF INFORMATION, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT'S HAPPENING AND WHAT COULD TAKE DO?

YOUR COUNTRY HAS HAD THIS, YOU KNOW, LONG RELATIONSHIP.

YOU'VE GOT A BORDER, YOUR PREVIOUS PRESIDENT HAD A BIG, YOU KNOW, RELATIONSHIP IN TERMS OF PLAYING SOME KIND OF BRIDGE WITH PUTIN FOR YEARS.

YOU KNOW HIM WELL.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS EFFECT OF THIS KIND OF TALK WILL HAVE ON PUTIN FROM TRUMP?

>> OF COURSE, HE WILL BE SMILING IN THE KREMLIN.

HE WILL BE VERY HAPPY.

BUT OUR EXPERIENCE WITH RUSSIA IS THAT YOU CAN WORK WITH RUSSIA, BUT REMEMBER THAT ESSENTIALLY IT IS AN IMPERIAL POWER.

IT HAS LIVED OFF AN EXPANSIVE FORM THROUGHOUT ITS HISTORY.

WE, OF COURSE, SEE SPEECHES COMING FROM PUTIN ABOUT GREAT RUSSIA, BASICALLY BORDERS FROM THE 1800s WHERE HE SEES ONE RUSSIA, ONE LANGUAGE, ONE RELIGION AND ONE LEADER.

THERE IS VERY MUCH THIS SORT OF BIG-POWER POLITICS THINKING IN ALL OF THIS.

AND IF, YOU KNOW, FOR SOME REASON RUSSIA WAS TO WIN OR FEEL THAT IT WON IN UKRAINE, IT WILL NOT STOP THERE.

IT WILL CONTINUE.

THAT IS THE MAIN REASON WHY WE NEED TO STOP PUTIN AND WE NEED TO STOP HIM NOW.

>> I JUST WANT TO PLAY A SOUND BITE FROM YOUR GERMAN COUNTERPART, THE NEWLY ELECTED FREDRICK MERTZ WHO IS TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER A WINNING COALITION TO BECOME CHANCELLOR.

THIS IS JUST BEFORE THE OVAL OFFICE MEETING.

THIS IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> MY ABSOLUTE PRIORITY WILL BE TO STRENGTHEN EUROPE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE SO THAT STEP BY STEP WE CAN REALLY ACHIEVE INDEPENDENCE FROM THE UNITED STATES.

[ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] >> Translator: BUT AT THE VERY LEAST AFTER DONALD TRUMP'S STATEMENTS LAST WEEK, IT IS CLEAR THAT THE AMERICANS, AT LEAST THIS PART OF THE AMERICANS IN THIS ADMINISTRATION, ARE LARGELY INDIFFERENT TO THE FATE OF EUROPE.

>> SO THAT'S PRETTY, YOU KNOW, PRETTY -- I DON'T KNOW.

IS IT PRAGMATIC, IS IT CYNICAL, IS IT REALISTIC?

I MEAN HE IS BASICALLY SAYING, WE CAN'T TRUST THEM, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE INDEPENDENT.

>> OKAY.

I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON A BOOK ABOUT THE TRIANGLE OF POWER, REBALANCING THE NEW WORLD ORDER FOR FOUR YEARS.

SO I STARTED WRITING THE BOOK WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP ENDED HIS FIRST TERM AND I FINISHED WRITING THE BOOK WHEN PRESIDENT TRUMP STARTED HIS SECOND TERM.

I ALWAYS CALL FOR PATIENCE.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE WORLD ORDER IS CHANGING, SO WE ARE LIVING A 1918, 1945 OR 1989 MOMENT, AND I WOULD ARGUE THAT IN THE ONE YEAR THAT I HAVE BEEN PRESIDENT THE WORLD HAS CHANGED MORE THAN IN THE PAST 30 YEARS COMBINED.

BUT THE FACT THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN IN OFFICE FOR FIVE WEEKS WILL NOT MEAN THE END OF A TRANSATLANTIC PARTNERSHIP.

IT WILL MEAN A DIFFERENT TRANSATLANTIC PARTNERSHIP.

DONALD TRUMP IS MUCH MORE TRANSACTIONAL AND BILATERAL.

YOU HAVE A COUNTRY LIKE FINLAND WHICH BUILDS ICE BREAKERS, GOOD ON DEFENSE AND TECHNOLOGY, A LOT OF STUFF WE CAN WORK ON.

NATO IS THE KEY HERE.

WHAT WE IN EUROPE NEED TO DO IS STOP COMPLAINING AND START WORKING WITH THE NEW AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION IN THE WAY IN WHICH THEY WORK.

FOR US RIGHT NOW, IT MEANS TWO THINGS.

ONE IS GET THEM TO SUPPORT UKRAINE BECAUSE THAT WAR IS EXISTENTIAL FOR THE UNITED STATES AS WELL AS FOR EUROPE, AND THEN SECONDLY MAKE SURE THAT THE UNITED STATES STAYS COMMITTED TO ARTICLE 5 AND TO NATO.

I HAVE HEARD NOTHING DIFFERENT FROM THAT.

SO THESE ARE THE KINDS OF PRACTICAL THINGS WE NEED TO WORK ON WITH THE AMERICANS WHILE, OF COURSE, AT THE SAME TIME TAKING MORE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR OWN EUROPEAN SECURITY.

>> OKAY.

SO, A, WOULD FINLAND JOIN THE COALITION OF THE WILLING THAT PRIME MINISTER STARMER AND PRESIDENT MACRON HAVE SAID THEY WOULD?

WOULD YOU?

>> WELL, YEAH, WELL, WE ARE THERE ALREADY.

YOU KNOW, THE REASON WE ARE DOING THIS IS, I'LL BE VERY FRANK WITH YOU, IN THE EUROPEAN UNION IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO HAVE A UNIFIED POSITION BECAUSE YOU HAVE COUNTRIES LIKE SLOVAKIA AND HUNGARY WHO TACK A DIFFERENT VIEW ON UKRAINE AND ON RUSSIAN, WHEREAS WE NEED BIG PLAYERS LIKE THE UNITED KINGDOM OR, FOR INSTANCE, NORWAY.

SO THIS IS A COALITION OF THE WILLING THAT FEELS THAT IT IS EXISTENTIAL FOR EUROPE TO SUPPORT UKRAINE AND MAKE SURE THAT ZELENSKYY AND UKRAINE DO NOT LOSE THIS WAR.

WE ARE THE ONES WHO NEED TO CONVINCE THE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION THAT IT IS ALSO IN THEIR TRANSACTIONAL INTEREST AND OTHERWISE THAT UKRAINE WINS.

>> DO YOU THINK YOU WILL BE ABLE -- BECAUSE YOU SAID AT THE VERY BEGINNING AMONGST EVERYTHING WE ALSO NEED AN AMERICAN BACKSTOP FOR ANY PEACE AND PEACE ENFORCEMENT.

DO YOU THINK YOU WILL BE ABLE TO CONVINCE THEM THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THEY NEED TO DO?

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT U.S. BOOTS ON THE GROUND BUT ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS.

>> YEAH, I HOPE WE CAN.

I MEAN THERE ARE SO MANY WAYS IN WHICH THAT CAN BE DONE.

LET ME GIVE ONE EXAMPLE WHICH HAS BEEN PUT FORWARD BY SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM FROM THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE RIGHT NOW IT SEEMS TO BE DIFFICULT FOR UKRAINE TO BECOME A NATO MEMBER ANY TIME SOON BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES AND GERMANY ARE QUITE SKEPTICAL ABOUT THAT.

WHY DON'T WE INSTEAD GIVE THEM A DE FACTO NATO MEMBERSHIP, WHICH BASICALLY MEANS THAT WHEN THE NEGOTIATIONS END AND WE HAVE A PEACE SETTLEMENT, A PART OF IT ALL IS TO SAY THAT IF RUSSIA EVER BREAKS THAT SETTLEMENT OR BREAKS THE CEASE-FIRE, ATTACKS UKRAINE AGAIN, UKRAINE BECOMES AUTOMATICALLY A MEMBER OF NATO.

I THINK THAT IS A STRONG ENOUGH BACKSTOP.

>> WELL, THAT'S AN INTERESTING IDEA THAT YOU'VE JUST THROWN OUT.

WE'LL DIGEST THAT.

PRESIDENT STUBB, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>>> SO LET'S ASK OUR NEXT GUEST, UKRAINIANS ARE RALLYING AROUND THEIR PRESIDENT, DETERMINED TO CONTINUE THEIR STRUGGLE AGAINST RUSSIA'S INVASION.

HE IS A RESIDENT OF KHARKIV AFTER THE LATEST DRONE AND MISSILE ATTACK ON CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE THAT CAME AROUND THE TIME OF THE WHITE HOUSE BUST-UP.

[ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] >> Translator: I HAVE GLASS SHIPYARDS IN MY HAIR.

I WAS NEXT TO A WINDOW, THEN AN EXPLOSION WAVE HIT.

THERE WAS A LOT OF BLOOD.

MAYBE THE WAY I'M TALKING NOW DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THIS CEASE-FIRE TALK.

THEY CALL UKRAINE GUILTY.

WHAT IS IT GUILTY OF?

HOW IS IT GUILTY?

HOW CAN IT BE GUILTY IF THE MONSTER ATTACKED?

HE CAN'T EVEN BE CALLED A HUMAN BEING.

>> RIGHT FROM IN THE TARGET ZONE THERE.

THERE'S BEEN AN OUTPOURING OF SUPPORT WORLDWIDE FOR ZELENSKYY INCLUDING HERE IN THE UK.

AS ONE UKRAINIAN SOLDIER TOLD US, ZELENSKYY DID NOT GO TO THE WHITE HOUSE TO GIVE UP.

HE COULD HAVE SURRENDERED DIRECTLY TO PUTIN.

SO WE HAVE A UKRAINIAN JOURNALIST WHO RECENTLY WROTE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS, PUTIN'S UKRAINE, THE END OF WAR AND THE PRICE OF RUSSIAN OCCUPATION.

SHE IS JOINING US NOW FROM KYIV.

NATALIA, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

JUST GIVE ME FIRST YOUR GUT REACTION.

WE HEARD FROM THE KHARKIV RESIDENT WHO IS, YOU KNOW, QUITE AFFRONTED BY WHAT HAPPENED TO HIS PRESIDENT AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ON THE GROUND IN TERMS OF WHAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT THAT FRIDAY NIGHT?

>> Reporter: SO UKRAINIANS ARE, FIRST OF ALL, THINKING WHAT TO DO NEXT BECAUSE WE ARE PRETTY PRAGMATIC.

AND WHAT THE LEVERAGE DONALD TRUMP HAS, OF COURSE, IT IS DIMINISHING AND WITHDRAWAL OF THE AMERICAN SUPPORT, PARTICULARLY IN DEFENSE, NOT SOMETHING THAT ANYBODY HERE WANTS TO HAPPEN.

SO UKRAINIANS STILL THINK THAT THE GOVERNMENT AND EVERYBODY NEEDS TO WORK SO AT LEAST TO PROLONG THIS MOMENT, BUT AT THE SAME TIME CONSIDERING WHAT WOULD BE THE WAY TO FIGHT WITHOUT POSSIBLY LESSER AMERICAN SUPPORT, HOW WE CAN COUNT ON OURSELVES, ON THE EUROPEANS.

SO THAT'S PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT PLAN SO FAR, AND HOW NOT TO BE VERY MUCH TORN BY THIS POLITICAL STORM BECAUSE THERE ARE REAL BATTLES ON THE BATTLEFIELDS EVERY SINGLE DAY.

THERE ARE REAL RISK AND, YOU KNOW, FOR US IT IS DEFINITELY AN IMPORTANT STAGE JUST TO UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON AND WHETHER THE UNITED STATES ARE STILL ON THE UKRAINIAN SIDE, WHETHER THEY COULD BE THE GUARANTORS FOR ANY NEGOTIATIONS.

BUT ON ONE HAND WE TREAT THE WAR AS A JOB, AS A WORK, AS A LABOR.

>> YOU MEAN EVERY CIVILIAN -- IT IS INTERESTING YOU SAY THAT BECAUSE YOU HEARD ONE OF THE THINGS THAT J.D.

VANCE SAID TO PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.

YOU ARE EVEN HAVING TROUBLE GETTING PEOPLE TO, YOU KNOW, FIGHT THE WAR, AND YOU SAY, YOU KNOW, WE ALL TREAT THIS AS A JOB.

WE HAVE A JOB TO DO TO DEFEND OURSELVES.

WHAT IS THE MORALE ON THE FRONT LINE?

>> I THINK UKRAINIANS ARE USUALLY BECOMING VERY UNITED AT THE MOMENT OF THE CRISIS.

SO, FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, IF FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS THERE WERE A LOT OF POLITICAL BATTLES, NOW EVEN THE FIERCEST OPPONENTS OF PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY ARE KIND OF RALLYING BEHIND.

ALSO BECAUSE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, THE DONALD TRUMP UNFORTUNATELY IS KIND OF WALKING INTO THE RUSSIAN TRAP BECAUSE EXACTLY THE THINGS WHICH WE HEARD FROM THE DONALD TRUMP, WERE TOLD EARLIER BY THE RUSSIAN LEADERS, BY THE KREMLIN ADMINISTRATION, IN PARTICULARLY THROWING THE IDEAS ABOUT THE LEGITIMACY OF THE UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT, ALL OF THE THINGS ABOUT THE ELECTIONS.

SO IT IS NOW MORE CLEAR THAT IT IS NOT -- IT IS NOT AN INNER PROBLEM BUT RATHER THE SPIN FROM MOSCOW.

BUT IF YOU SPEAK ABOUT THE MOBILIZATION AND, YOU KNOW, VICE PRESIDENT J.D.

VANCE REALLY TALKED QUITE A LOT OF THINGS, I THINK IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO REMIND THAT FOR UKRAINE, OF COURSE, AND THAT'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE U.S. CAN MAKE THE DIFFERENCE FOR UKRAINIANS FOR QUITE SOME TIME, RALLYING FOR A DIFFERENT TYPE OF WAGING THE WAR IN WHICH UKRAINE CAN BE MORE STRONG.

FOR INSTANCE, WITH A DIFFERENT TYPE OF WEAPON UKRAINE CAN DESTROY AND CONTROL CENTERS, FOR INSTANCE THEREFORE THE WAR WON'T BE SYMMETRICAL.

YOU WON'T NEED THAT MANY YOUNG UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS TO FIGHT THAT MANY RUSSIAN SOLDIERS BUT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO STOP THEM EARLIER.

UNFORTUNATELY, THOSE DISCUSSIONS ARE NOT THERE ANY LONGER AND NOW WE ARE DISCUSSING, LET'S SAY, MORE THEORETICAL ISSUE BECAUSE THE DISCUSSION WHICH IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT IS REALLY NOT ABOUT REAL SOLUTION.

IT IS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HAVING SOMETHING VERY FAST WITHOUT CLEARLY THINKING WHAT IT WILL BRING.

>> SO BEFORE I GET TO YOUR ARTICLE, BECAUSE IT WAS VERY INTERESTING, I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

THERE'S ALSO AN ARTICLE IN ONE OF THESE FOREIGN POLICY MAGAZINES WHICH THERE'S A UKRAINIAN ANALYST AND I THINK ANOTHER ONE.

ANYWAY, THEY GO BACK TO THE VERY QUICK CEASE-FIRE THAT WAS BROKERED IN MINSK1 AND MINSK2 BY CHANCELLOR MERKEL, ET CETERA.

THEY POINT OUT TO HOW THERE WAS NO ENFORCEMENT, THERE WAS NOT ACCOUNTABILITY AND HOW IT BROKE DOWN MOSTLY BECAUSE RUSSIA, YOU KNOW, JUST KEPT GOING.

IS THAT WHAT CONCERNS YOU AS SOMEBODY WHO IS WATCHING THIS, THAT IT CAN'T JUST BE A QUICK CEASE-FIRE?

THERE HAS TO BE, AS PRESIDENT STUBB SAID, A LOT MORE WORKAROUND IT?

>> YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN IN MARIUPOL WHEN THE FIRST MINSK AGREEMENT WAS SIGNED AND WAS IN MUNICH A FEW DAYS BEFORE THE SECOND WAS SIGNED.

YOU KNOW, FOLLOW THAT FOR ALMOST EIGHT YEARS ON THE DAILY BASIS.

SO, INDEED, EVEN THE PEOPLE WHO WERE A BIT OPTIMISTIC AND TRIED TO PERSUADE THE UKRAINIAN AUDIENCE THAT MAYBE LET'S GIVE IT A TRY, TODAY WE'LL THINK IN UKRAINE THAT ALL OF THOSE YEARS WERE USED AS A DISTRACTION WHILE THE GERMANS, THE FRENCH AND THE UKRAINIANS WERE DISTRACTED BY ENDLESS NEGOTIATIONS INCLUDING ABOUT KIND OF MODALITY OF THE ELECTIONS AND PEACEKEEPERS.

RUSSIA WAS BUILDING BRIDGES, BUILDING ROADS TO BRING THEIR WEAPON AND CREATING A LAUNCH PAD TO INVADE EVEN -- AND THAT'S WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED ON FEBRUARY 24th, 2022.

SO THE -- WHAT IS OFFERED TODAY IS JUST SO SIMILAR, EVEN LIKE COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, LET'S SAY DURING THE LAST MONTH AS THE DISCUSSIONS WHICH WE HEARD FROM EVEN MOSCOW, THEY WERE LIKE, THE RUSSIAN PLAN IS MINSK THREE, BUT WITHOUT ZELENSKYY.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW.

THERE ARE VERY LEGIT CONCERNS INCLUDING FROM THE UKRAINIAN POPULATION, BUT ALSO FROM THE UKRAINIAN LEADERS WHO NEGOTIATED WITH RUSSIA FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS, THAT THAT WOULD BE JUST A PAUSE.

>> JUST A PAUSE, AND THAT'S WHAT A LOT OF UKRAINE'S ALLIES FEAR WHICH IS WHY THEY WANT A PROPER PEACE ENFORCEMENT WITH BACK STOP AND ALL OF THE REST OF IT.

FINALLY, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR OWN ARTICLE, THE MOST RECENT ONE.

YOU SAY, YES, ALL UKRAINIANS WANT PEACE, BUT -- AND YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT NOT WANTING TO LIVE IF PEACE MEANS UNDER A RUSSIAN OCCUPATION.

>> SO THERE ARE TWO PARTS.

SO FIRST WE DO HAVE 20% OF THE UKRAINIAN TERRITORY UNDER THE RUSSIAN OCCUPATION, AND WHEN I WAS WRITING THAT I WAS ALSO TRYING TO EXPLAIN THE BRUTALITY OF THIS LIFE AND ALSO HOW THE OCCUPATION IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE VIOLATION OF THE HUMAN RIGHTS IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES BUT HOW THAT BECAME THE SYSTEM TO SUBDUE UKRAINIAN POPULATION FOR WAGE, EVEN A BIGGER WAR.

IT IS A HORRIBLE SITUATION FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE KEPT IN THE OCCUPIED TERRITORIES BUT ALSO THE RISK FOR THE FUTURE OCCUPATION IF THERE ARE NO TYPE OF GUARANTEES.

I REALLY WAS TRYING TO EXPLAIN HOW THOSE EIGHT YEARS, DURING THOSE YEARS THE KREMLIN HAS DEVELOPED THE TOOL KIT WHICH IS READY MADE AND WAS ALSO USED FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS OF THE FULL-SCALE INVASION.

THAT'S WHAT CAN REALLY HAPPEN IF UKRAINE STOPS DEFENDING ITSELF AND WOULD AGREE ON KIND OF CEASE-FIRE WITHOUT THE GUARANTEES.

UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S NOT THE DISCUSSION WE REALLY HAVE.

IT IS REALLY SO FAR JUST ABOUT THE DEAL BY ANY COST WITHOUT CLEAR CONDITIONALITIES.

BUT IT IS GOOD TO HEAR THERE ARE DIFFERENT VOICES NOW APPEARING GLOBALLY, INCLUDING IN EUROPE.

>> AND I JUST WANT TO FINALLY ASK YOU WHAT YOU MADE PERSONALLY OF THE ENCOUNTER IN THE WHITE HOUSE ON FRIDAY, PARTICULARLY WHEN TRUMP AFTERWARDS, OR TO HIM SAID, "YOU HAVE NO CARDS TO PLAY AND WITHOUT US" YOU KNOW, YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE A LOT OF YOUR COUNTRY IF NOT ALL OF IT.

I DON'T KNOW.

HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

>> FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE NOT THAT SHAKEN BY THAT BECAUSE THAT'S HOW RUSSIA SPEAKS, HOW THEY SPEAK AND WE ARE DOING OUR OWN JOB AND FIGHTING BACK BECAUSE WITHOUT UKRAINE NOTHING CAN BE SOLVED.

FOR ME WHAT WAS EYE-OPENING IS TO SEE THAT DONALD TRUMP KIND OF DOESN'T REALLY SEE RUSSIA AS THE ADVERSARY.

HE REALLY SPEAKS ABOUT PUTIN NOT AS IF HE IS NOT THE -- THE POTENTIAL WAR CRIMINAL.

BUT ALSO WHAT IS IMPORTANT, I FINALLY FELT THAT I FIGURE OUT WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT BECAUSE WHEN HE -- HE SPEAKS ABOUT THE GUARANTEE, DONALD TRUMP ACTUALLY EXPLAINED BECAUSE UKRAINIANS WERE ASKING ABOUT THE GUARANTEES ALL THE TIME, BUT HE REALLY LITERALLY SAID HIS WORD IS A GUARANTEE.

SO PUTIN RESPECTS HIM AND THAT'S ENOUGH TO BELIEVE HIM.

SO IF YOU DON'T -- IF YOU CHALLENGE THAT, IT IS PROBABLY YOU'RE DISRESPECTFUL.

ACTUALLY, THE WHOLE DISCUSSION IS THAT WE REALLY NEED TO TRUST DONALD TRUMP'S WORD AND THAT'S IT.

THAT'S WHY THOSE GUARANTEES IS THERE.

I THINK THAT WAS PRETTY EYE OPENING FOR ME.

>> NATALIA, THANK YOU SO MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US FROM KYIV.

>>> NOW WE TURN TO THE MIDDLE EAST WHERE A DELICATE TRUCE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS HANGS BY A THREAD.

ISRAEL HAS BLOCKED ALL HUMANITARIAN AID INTO GAZA TO PRESSURE HAMAS INTO ACCEPTING A TEMPORARY EXTENSION OF THE CEASE-FIRE, BUT HAMAS ACCUSES ISRAEL OF VIOLATING THE AGREEMENT.

WHILE JEEP ISSUED A STARK CONDEMNATION SAYING THAT IT REJECTS, QUOTE, THE POLITICIZATION OF HUMANITARIAN AID AND ITS EXPLOITATION AS A TOOL OF BLACKMAIL.

AS FOR THE UNITED STATES- MEDIATED CEASE-FIRE, OVER THE LAST WEEKS HAMAS HAS FREED 33 HOSTAGES IN EXCHANGE FOR OVER 1,000 ALESTINIAN PRISONERS.

SOME WERE SERVING LONG JAIL TERMS OVER ATTACKS IN THE COUNTRY.

JEREMY DIAMOND SPOKE WITH ONE OF THEM.

>> Reporter: AT THIS CEMETERY IN HAIFA HE REFLECTS ON WHAT HE CALLS THE PRICE OF A DEAL TO FREE ISRAELI HOSTAGES.

>> THIS IS THE PRICE IN FRONT OF YOU?

>> YES, A REALLY HUGE PRICE FOR ME.

>> Reporter: 21 YEARS AFTER HIS FATHER, BROTHER, GRANDPARENTS AND COUSIN WERE KILLED IN A SUICIDE BOMBING, THE MAN WHO PLANNED THE ATTACK HAS BEEN SET FREE.

IT IS A PRICE HE SAYS HE IS WILLING TO PAY.

THREE ISRAELI HOSTAGES ARE NOW FREE BECAUSE OF IT.

THIS WAS THE GRIZZLY SCENE AT THE MAXIM RESTAURANT IN HAIFA ON OCTOBER 4th, 2003, AFTER A SUICIDE BOMBER DETONATED AN EXPLOSIVE BELT.

HE WAS HAVING LUNCH WITH HIS FAMILY.

HE WAS BLINDED BY THE BLAST.

NOW STANDING AT THE MEMORIAL DEDICATED TO THE 21 VICTIMS OF THE ATTACK, HE RECALLS THE MOMENT HE LEARNED THE MAN WHO DISPATCHED THAT SUICIDE BOMBER WOULD BE RELEASED.

>> MY FIRST REACTION IS TO THINK, IT WAS SHOCK.

>> Reporter: HE SAYS HE SOON STARTED TO SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE.

>> I UNDERSTOOD THE ADVANTAGE OF THAT WILL STAY IN THE JAIL FOREVER.

MY FAMILY WHO WERE MURDERED IN THE TERROR ATTACK, THEY WILL NEVER RETURN ALIVE, BUT LIVING ISRAELI HOSTAGES STILL COME BACK.

>> Reporter: IT IS SOMETHING HE UNDERSTANDS BETTER THAN MOST.

HIS COUSIN GOLDSTEIN AND HER THREE CHILDREN HAD BEEN TAKEN HOSTAGE ON OCTOBER 7th AND WERE RELEASED AS PART OF THE NOVEMBER 2023 CEASE-FIRE AGREEMENT.

HUNDREDS OF PALESTINIAN PRISONERS HAVE BEEN FREED DURING THE FIRST PHASE OF THE CEASE-FIRE, BUT MOST ARE NOT CONVICTED MURDERERS LIKE SAMI JARDOT.

THE 1,535 PALESTINIANS RELEASED DURING THE FIRST PHASE OF THE CEASE-FIRE, ABOUT 15% WERE CONVICTED OF KILLING ISRAELIS, INCLUDING SOLDIERS.

ANOTHER 18% WERE CONVICTED OF ATTEMPTED MURDER.

NEARLY TWO THIRDS, INCLUDING 1,000 PALESTINIANS DETAINED IN GAZA DURING THE WAR WERE HELD WITHOUT TRIAL.

THE REMAINDER WERE CONVICTED OF LESSER CHARGES LIKE INCITEMENT, A CHARGE USED TO JAIL PALESTINIAN OVER SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS.

THAT NUANCE IS OFTEN LOST ON THE ISRAELI PUBLIC.

>> ISRAELIS BELIEVE THAT A PALESTINIAN THAT'S BEING HELD IN ISRAELI DETENTION BY VIRTUE OF BEING HELD IN ISRAELI DETENTION MUST BE A TERRORIST.

THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THERE COULD BE PEOPLE WHO ARE INNOCENT OF ANY CHARGE, WHO WERE BASICALLY DETAINED FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS VERY MOMENT, THE HOSTAGE EXCHANGE AND PRISONER RELEASE.

>> Reporter: INSTEAD, MANY ISRAELIS OF YAHYA SINWAR.

THE MASTERMIND OF THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACK WHO WAS AMONG MORE THAN 1,000 PALESTINIAN PRISONERS RELEASED IN EXCHANGE FOR THE ISRAELI SOLDIER.

STILL, A MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS LIKE ORAN HAVE CONSISTENTLY SUPPORTED THE CEASE-FIRE AND HOSTAGE RELEASE DEAL, THINKING OF THE HOSTAGES ABOVE ALL.

[ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] >> MAYBE SOME WILL IN THE BALANCE, AND THEY FEEL THE FULL MEANING OF THIS DEAL AND THIS TO ME.

MAYBE SOMEONE.

>> JEREMY DIMON REPORTING THERE.

A WRENCHING LOOK AT THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

>>> NOW WE WANT TO TURN TO A TRIUMPHANT MOMENT OF UNITY AT THE OSCARS AS NO OTHER LAND, A SEARING LOOK AT A COMMUNITY UNDER SIEGE IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK WON THE BEST DOCUMENTARY OSCAR.

IT WAS MADE BY A TEAM OF PALESTINIAN AND ISRAELI FILMMAKERS.

WHEN I SPOKE TO THEM THEY TOLD ME WHY THIS FILM IS HAVING SUCH AN IMPACT AND WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE GOING FORWARD.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES THIS SO COMPELLING IS WE GET TO SEE ORDINARY VILLAGERS AND THEIR EMOTIONS, THE MEN, THE WOMEN, THE CHILDREN, AS THE HOUSES ARE BEING DEMOLISHED.

THIS IS THE FOCUS, AS YOU SAID, THE DEMOLITION OF HOUSES, WHICH IS A REGULAR THING.

WE HAVE SEEN THIS FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS.

I WANT TO KNOW, WHEN YOU SAW THAT IF YOU DID, HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

>> IT IS A REALLY GOOD POINT, CHRISTIANE.

AS YOU SAID, WE HAVE SEEN IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND I THINK PEOPLE KNOW THE FACTS.

I JUST SPOKE ABOUT FACTS BEFORE.

THAT WAS 99% AND ALL OF THAT, BUT, YOU KNOW, FACTS ARE ONLY ONE PART OF THE TRUTH.

THERE IS A MUCH DEEPER EMOTIONAL TRUTH TO WHAT IT MEANS LIKE TO LIVE UNDER THIS MILITARY CONTROL.

YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME I MET BASIL I CAME TO INTERVIEW HIM AND IN FIVE MINUTES WE HAD TO RUN BECAUSE THERE WAS A STRUCTURE IN HIS VILLAGE THAT WAS BEING DEMOLISHED.

STANDING THERE AND LOOKING AT THE FACES OF LIKE THE FAMILY THAT'S BEING PUSHED OUT OF THEIR HOUSE AND I REMEMBER I HEARD MY FIRST STUN GRENADE, LIKE THE MILITARY IMMEDIATELY THREW STUN GRENADES, THE SENSE OF DREAD, YOU GO TO SLEEP AND YOU DON'T KNOW THE NEXT DAY IF YOUR HOUSE WILL BE DEMOLISHED.

ALL OF THAT IS AN EMOTIONAL FEELING AND A TRUTH THAT I FEEL JOURNALISM IS OFTEN NOT ABLE TO CONVEY.

>> BASIL THIS FILM IS CALLED "NO OTHER LAND."

YOU HAVE NO OTHER LAND TO LIVE ON.

SO WHAT IS YOUR FUTURE?

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF YOUR VILLAGE RIGHT NOW?

>> THE STATUS OF MY VILLAGE AND SO MANY PALESTINIAN VILLAGES IN WHAT IS SO-CALLED AREA C, IT IS UNDER SO MUCH ATTACKS AND LOSING A COMMUNITY AFTER ANOTHER COMMUNITY.

THIS IS NOT STOPPING, EVEN WITH THE VERY, VERY SMALL SANCTIONS THAT THE U.S. AND OTHER GOVERNMENTS ARE DOING AGAINST THIS TERRORIST SETTLERS.

I THINK THE U.S. AS THE MAIN PLAYER ON THIS SHOULD STOP THIS FROM GOING ON AND SHOULD STOP AND PUT LIMITS AND RED LINES FOR THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT TO STOP THIS ACTION AND THESE ATTACKS AGAINST THE COMMUNITIES, AGAINST THE WAR THEY ARE DOING IN GAZA WHICH IS SO HORRIBLE.

I MEAN WE DON'T -- AS PALESTINIANS TODAY WE ARE VERY, VERY POWERLESS AND VERY WORRIED AND AFRAID FOR OUR FUTURE WITH WHAT WE ARE FACING TODAY AS FROM ALL OF THIS BRUTALITY AND MASSACRES AND KILLING.

AND THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY SHOULD STAND FOR THE PALESTINIAN CIVILITY AND SHOULD DEFEND INTERNATIONAL LAW AND STOP THIS FROM GOING ON.

>> SO NOT ONLY DID IT WIN THE OSCAR FOR BEST DOCUMENTARY, IT WAS ALSO CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED.

BUT BECAUSE OF THE POLITICAL NATURE OF WHAT IS GOING ON IT COULDN'T FIND OFFICIAL DISTRIBUTION IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO THE FILMMAKERS HAD TO MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENED ON THEIR OWN.

ELSEWHERE THOUGH IT WAS "ANORA'S" NIGHT, BAGGING FIVE ACADEMY AWARDS INCLUDING BEST PICTURE.

AS IT BUILT UP MOMENTUM THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT, HOST CONAN O'BRIEN QUIPPED AMERICANS WERE FINALLY READY TO, QUOTE, SEE SOMEONE STAND UP TO A POWERFUL RUSSIAN.

THE MOVIE STAR, 25-YEAR-OLD MIKEY MADISON WON THE BEST ACTRESS AWARD.

WHEN SHE SPOKE TO ME LAST MONTH HOW SHE HAD TO LEAN INTO HER IMPOSTER SYNDROME FOR THIS ROLE.

>> I NEVER HAD A DIRECTOR WANT TO WRITE SOMETHING FOR ME, AND SO IT WAS VERY EXCITING.

I HAD TO REALLY QUICKLY LIKE LET GO OF -- TRY AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO LET GO OF MY IMPOSTER SYNDROME OF WHY DID HE CHOOSE ME, WHY DOES HE WANT TO DO THIS WITH ME, AND JUST KIND OF ACCEPT THE EXPERIENCE AND WHAT WAS COMING BECAUSE I HAVE ALWAYS DREAMED OF BEING ABLE TO COLLABORATE WITH A DIRECTOR LIKE THIS.

YOU KNOW, I HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR A DECADE NOW AS AN ACTOR, TRYING TO WORK.

>> SOME GREAT DIRECTORS, TOO, QUINTEN TARANTINO.

WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO SHED YOUR IMPOSTER SYNDROME FOR GOOD?

>> OH, I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW.

I MEAN I THINK THAT THERE ALWAYS WILL BE A BIT OF THAT.

>> AN OSCAR?

>> BUT, YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO SAY I NEVER -- I NEVER WANT TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE I'M LIKE -- I DON'T KNOW.

WHERE I DON'T HAVE THAT PIECE OF ME.

I THINK THAT IT ALMOST PUSHES ME TO CONTINUE BEING A STUDENT IN A WAY.

I ALWAYS WANT TO KEEP GETTING BETTER, LEARNING, YOU KNOW, REFINING MY CRAFT IN SOME WAY.

SO I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T THINK I WILL EVER GET TO A PLACE WHERE I FEEL LIKE, OH, I'M GOOD, I DON'T NEED TO LEARN ANYTHING ELSE.

I THINK I ALWAYS WANT TO BE -- I DON'T KNOW, I THINK THAT THAT'S GOOD THOUGH.

>> IT IS GOOD.

IT IS A GOOD POINT.

IT WAS ALSO A GOOD NIGHT FOR BRAZIL.

"I'M STILL HERE" A POWERFUL FILM ABOUT LIFE UNDER THE U.S.-BACKED DICTATORSHIP IN THE 1970, WU THE FIRST FOR THE INTERNATIONAL FEATURE.

THE STAR FERNANDES TORRES TOLD ME WHY THE FILM WAS A BREAK THROUGH AND HOW TERRIFYINGLY TOPICAL IT WAS.

>> WE SHOT IT IN 2023 WITHOUT HAVING THE SLIGHTEST IDEA THAT THERE HAD BEEN A FAILED ATTEMPT OF A COUP D'ETAT.

>> A MILITARY COUP D'ETAT AT THE END OF 2022.

AS THE FILM WAS LAUNCHED IN BRAZIL AND EMBRACED BY THE AUDIENCE, THAT -- THE NEWS ACTUALLY WERE UNEARTHED BY THE FEDERAL POLICE THAT THAT COUP D'ETAT THAT INCLUDED THE ASSASSINATION OF THE PRESIDENT, OF THE VICE PRESIDENT HAD ALMOST BEEN, YOU KNOW, THE REALITY OF THE COUNTRY.

>> HAD ALMOST SUCCEEDED.

>> THAT FOR US WAS -- >> YEAH, NO.

>> SO IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LAUNCH OF THE FILM WE REALIZED THAT MORE THAN EVER IT WAS A FILM ABOUT TODAY, YOU KNOW, ABOUT WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE COUNTRY AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

>> AND CLEARLY -- >> AND THIS ACT OF ANTICIPATION CLEARLY WASN'T IN OUR PLANS.

IT JUST HAPPENED.

IT IS AN EXTRAORDINARY COINCIDENCE.

>> ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE CAME TO THE MOVIE THEATERS.

SO YOU HAVE RIGHT WINGS, LEFT WINGS, CENTER, PROGRESSIVES, AND IT WAS LIKE AROUND THIS FAMILY.

WE ALL COULD COME TO A SENSE THAT A DICTATORIAL REGIME IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, AND THAT WAS A MIRACLE OF THIS MOVIE.

WE WERE ALL SURPRISED, NO, BECAUSE ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE ARE GOING AND GETTING MOVED BY THIS FAMILY AND SAYING, THAT'S NOT GOOD.

I MEAN IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

>> HOW TOPICAL INDEED.

CONGRATULATIONS TO OUR OSCAR WINNERS.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, A TRIBUTE TO A REMARKABLE MAN WHOSE COMMITMENT TO A LIFETIME OF GIVING HAS SAVED OVER 2 MILLION BABIES.

AUSTRALIAN BLOOD DONOR JAMES HARRISON, KNOWN AS THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN ARM, BEGAN DONATING HIS PLASMA AFTER IT WAS FOUND TO CONTAIN A RARE ANTIBODY.

THIS IS WHEN HE WAS 18.

HE CONTINUED TO DO IT EVERY TWO WEEKS UNTIL HE WAS 81.

HIS DEATH AT 88 HAS ONLY JUST BEEN ANNOUNCED, BUT HIS LEGACY OF GENEROSITY AND LIFE SURVIVES.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

GOODBYE FROM LONDON.

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