>>> HELLO AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

>> MAY BE, SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT TO MAKE A DEAL, IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT TO MAKE A DEAL, THAT PERSON WILL NOT BE AROUND FOR VERY LONG.

>> AS DONALD TRUMP SLAMMED ZELENSKYY AND CUTS OFF UKRAINE MILITARY AID, THE LATEST WITH RUSSIAN EXPERT AND FORMER DONALD TRUMP WHISTLEBLOWER.

THE U.S. GRAPPLES WITH A DEADLY MEASLES OUTBREAK, WHILE A VACCINE SKEPTIC LEADS AMERICAN HEALTHCARE.

I DISCUSSED WITH A DOCTOR, THE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR HEALTH AND HUMAN RIGHTS AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY.

>> NOT JUST A DEPARTURE FROM WHERE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS, BUT IT IS A STARK DEPARTURE FROM THE FIRST DONALD TRUMP OF ADMINISTRATION .

>> LOOKING FROM WITHIN THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE, WHAT MAY BE IN STORE IN THE WEEKS AND YEARS AHEAD.

MARK SHORT HAS BEEN IN THE ROOM.

>> WHEN YOU TALK TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR, A NUMBER OF THESE PLACES, THE CONGO, UKRAINE, WE CANNOT GO IN WITHOUT A SENSE OF PROTECTION.

>> AS RARE EARTH AND CRITICAL MINERALS LEAVES U.S. FOREIGN POLICY, AN EXPERT TELLS HARI SREENIVASAN WHY DONALD TRUMP WANTS THEM SO BADLY.

♪ ♪ >>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING, PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LAYLA AND MICKEY STRAUSS, THAT PETER G. PETERSON FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE-ZUCKERBERG.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS, AND CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> I AM SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR .

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS PAUSING ALL SHIPMENTS OF MILITARY AID TO UKRAINE, POTENTIALLY CRIPPLING THE COUNTRY'S WAR EFFORT AGAINST AN INVADING RUSSIA.

A DRAMATIC ESCALATION OF TENSIONS BETWEEN THE U.S. AND UKRAINE WHICH BUBBLED OVER AFTER DONALD TRUMP AND JD VANCE EXTRAORDINARY ARGUMENT WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY LAST FRIDAY .

JD VANCE SAYS THIS IS PART OF AN EFFORT TO MAKE UKRAINE NEGOTIATE.

>> WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID VERY CLEARLY ABOUT OUR UKRAINE POLICY, HE WANTS THE UKRAINIANS TO COME TO THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.

WE WANT UKRAINIANS TO HAVE A SOVEREIGN AND -- WE THINK UKRAINIAN TROOPS HAVE FOUGHT VERY BRAVELY BUT AT A POINT WHERE NEITHER EUROPE NOR THE UNITED STATES, NOR THE UKRAINIANS, CAN CONTINUE THIS WAR INDEFINITELY.

IT IS IMPORTANT EVERYBODY COMES TO THE TABLE AND THE PRESIDENT IS TRYING TO SEND A VERY EXPLICIT MESSAGE, THE UKRAINIANS HAVE GOT TO COME TO THE TABLE AND START NEGOTIATING WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP.

>> THE PRESSURE IS BEING RAMPED UP ON A SUPPOSED U.S.

ALLY, AN ADVERSARY IS GETTING THE OPPOSITE THE WHITE HOUSE PAUSING OFFENSIVE CYBER OPERATIONS AGAINST MOSCOW EVEN MULLING SANCTION RELIEF COMPLETELY.

AS U.S. FOREIGN POLICY CONTINUES TO SHIFT, THE EUROPEAN UNION IS ANNOUNCING AN $800 BILLION PLAN TO REARM THE CONTINENT AND PROVIDE AID TO UKRAINE.

WILL IT BE ENOUGH?

WITH ME IS ALEXANDER VINDMAN, SPECIALIZING IN EASTERN EUROPE AND RUSSIA ON THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL DURING THE FIRST DONALD TRUMP TERM AND EVENTUALLY BLEW THE WHISTLE ON THE PRESIDENT'S RIGHT TO SUSPEND MILITARY AID TO TRY TO GET ZELENSKYY TO INVESTIGATE HUNTER BIDEN 'S NEW BOOK, THE FOLLY OF REALISM, HOW THE WEST DECEIVE YOURSELF ABOUT RUSSIA AND TRADE UKRAINE COULD NOT BE ANY MORE TIMELY.

HE JOINS ME NOW THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING THE PROGRAM, AS WE NOTED, YOU OF ALL PEOPLE KNOW THE CONTENT JUST HISTORY BETWEEN THESE TWO LEADERS, GETTING BACK TO PRESIDENT TRUMP 'S FIRST TERM LEADING UP TO HIS IMPEACHMENT AND THE THREAT OF WITHHOLDING AID TO UKRAINE.

WE SHOULD BE HONEST, CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR HAS MENTIONED THIS , IT WAS DONALD TRUMP WHO DID PROVIDE UKRAINE ULTIMATELY WITH THE JAVELINS, UNLIKE HIS PREDECESSOR.

GIVEN THE FACT, IN THE COURSE OF THE LAST 24 HOURS, WE HAVE SEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP TEMPORARILY WITHHOLD AID, ABOUT $1 MILLION WORTH, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY TWEETING MOMENTS AGO , A SORT OF, I DON'T WANT TO SAY APOLOGY, BUT ANYTHING BUT.

HE SAID, WE DO VALUE HOW MUCH AMERICA HAS DONE TO HELP UKRAINE MAINTAIN ITS SOVEREIGNTY AND INDEPENDENCE, AND WE REMEMBER THE MOMENT WHEN THINGS CHANGE, WOULD PRESIDENT TRUMP PROVIDED UKRAINE WITH JAVELINS, WE ARE GRATEFUL AT OUR MEETING IN WASHINGTON ON FRIDAY DID NOT GO THE WAY IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE, IT IS REGRETTABLE THAT THIS HAPPENED THIS WAY, IT IS TIME TO MAKE THINGS RIGHT.

WE WOULD LIKE FUTURE COOPERATION AND COMMUNICATION TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS POST ON Z FROM PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY GIVEN THE PRESSURE FROM THE UNITED STATES , THE CRITICISM OF HIS ACTIONS AND HIS ACTIONS ALONE SEEMINGLY OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST FEW WEEKS.

DO YOU THINK THIS OPENS THE DOOR TO REPAIRING THE RELATIONSHIP, OR DO YOU THINK THAT SHIP HAS SAILED AT THIS POINT?

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU AGAIN.

I THINK THE BEST CASE SCENARIO IS IT MAY DELAY THE TRAJECTORY OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THEY ARE SHOCKINGLY MAKING THE WORST MISTAKES OF ALL OF OUR ERRORS WE HAVE HAD WITH RUSSIAN POLICY, CATERING, ACCOMMODATING RUSSIA AND PUNISHING OR FAILING TO ADEQUATELY SUPPORT OUR ALLIES.

EVEN THE COMMENTS BY JD VANCE ABOUT PUTTING PRESSURE ON UKRAINE TO NEGOTIATE, UKRAINE IS WILLING TO DO ALMOST ANYTHING EXCEPT COMPROMISES SOVEREIGNTY, AND PERMANENTLY GIVE UP ON HIS TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY.

IT IS WILLING TO COME TO THE TABLE FOR HIS NEGOTIATIONS.

THERE HAVE BEEN ZERO SIGNS, NO SIGNS WHATSOEVER THAT THE RUSSIANS ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT ANYTHING BUT THE MOST MAXIMALIST OBJECTIVES CAPITULATION OF UKRAINE.

A COMPROMISE OF UKRAINE SOVEREIGNTY AND THE NEUTRALITY.

FRANKLY, ELIMINATION OF THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE UKRAINIAN MILITARY.

OUR PRESSURE IS CONTINUOUSLY ON UKRAINE WHETHER THIS STATEMENT REALLY AMOUNT TO MUCH, I THINK IN A LOT OF WAYS, DONALD TRUMP IS VERY SET ON HIS PRO RUSSIA APPROACH.

HE IS VERY MUCH VINDICTIVE AND WANTS TO PUNISH UKRAINE FOR ALL THE PERCEIVED SLIGHTS THEY COMMITTED.

UKRAINE BEING THE SUBJECT OF A QUID PRO QUO IN THE FIRST IMPEACHMENT.

WHETHER THIS REALLY RESOLVES THE ISSUE, THE BEST CASE SCENARIO IS THAT WE MAY BE SUSTAINED SOME HEARTBEAT OF A RELATIONSHIP GOING FORWARD.

UKRAINE CONTINUES TO ENJOY SOME BASELINE LEVEL OF SUPPORT, WHEREAS THE EUROPEANS RAMP UP THEIR SUPPORT WITH HIS $800 BILLION EURO PLANT FOR INVESTMENT IN DEFENSE.

THAT COMES ONLINE AND EUROPEANS BECOME A MUCH MORE PREDICTABLE AND STABLE PARTNER.

THAT IS THE BEST CASE SCENARIO IT COULD WORK WORSE, WE COULD HAVE SOME PRONOUNCEMENT THIS EVENING THAT SAYS THAT UKRAINE WILL NO LONGER ENJOY ANY SUPPORT FROM THE U.S. WE COULD EVEN SEE, THIS ISOLATIONIST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, WE COULD HAVE MORE DIRE PREDICTIONS ABOUT THE U.S. NOT BEING THERE FOR EUROPE.

AND READY TO SUPPORT NATO.

ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN WITH THE CHAOS WE SEE EMERGING OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.

THE LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF THE HISTORY AND THE LESSONS OF THE PAST.

>> WE HAVE YET TO SEE THE WHITE HOUSE RESPOND TO THIS POST FROM PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY .

WE DO KNOW THAT, EXPERTS PREDICT WITHHOLDING AID, THIS $1 BILLION WORTH OF AID, WOULD LIKELY HAVE A LONGER-TERM IMPACT ON UKRAINE, ABOUT THREE OR FOUR MONTHS FROM NOW, THAT POINT IS WHEN UKRAINE WOULD RUN OUT OF CRUCIAL ARTILLERY SHELLS.

JUST, PSYCHOLOGICALLY, KNOWING THIS AID IS BEING WITHHELD RIGHT NOW, WE DO NOT KNOW IF THAT ALSO MEANS INTELLIGENCE SHARING IS BEING WITHHELD.

STARLIKE SATELLITE SYSTEMS.

ALL OF THAT COULD HAVE MORE OF A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT ON THE BATTLEFIELD, AND IN PARTICULAR, HOW THE KREMLIN MAY HAVE THE UPPER HAND, EVEN MORE SO.

>> I THINK THE IMMEDIATE EFFECT IS ON THE MORALE OF THE CIVILIAN POPULATION, THE MORALE OF THE MILITARY, ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE BOLSTERING THEIR MORALE AND OPPRESSING THE MORALE OF UKRAINIAN, THESE VALOROUS UKRAINIAN TROOPS THAT HAVE BEEN DEFENDING THE COUNTRY AGAINST THIS RUSSIAN ONSLAUGHT.

THAT IS THE IMMEDIATE IMPACT.

THE REST OF IT WILL UNFOLD OVER THE COURSE OF PROBABLY MORE LIKE SIX MONTHS.

SOME THINGS WILL START TO ERODE RELATIVELY QUICKLY, THESE INTERCEPTORS FROM PATRIOT MISSILES PROTECTING CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE, THE CITIES THEMSELVES, THE SILLY VIBRATION, THOSE SUPPLIES WILL DWINDLE AND ARTILLERY OVER THE COURSE OF TIME WILL HAVE TO BE RATIONED.

WITH LESS IMPACT UPFRONT AND MORE IMPACT LONG-TERM.

THE EUROPEANS MAY BE ABLE TO PLUG SOME OF THOSE GAPS.

THESE CRITICAL ENABLERS LIKE STRATEGIC INTELLIGENCE COULD BE MORE IMPORTANT FOR LONG-RANGE STRIKES AND THE MISSILES THAT THE U.S. HAS BEEN PROVIDING.

ARTILLERY FUNDAMENTALLY, LONG- TERM, WILL BE THE BIGGEST FACTOR.

THE FACT IS, UKRAINIANS ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE, THE RUSSIANS DO NOT HAVE THE STRENGTH TO SEIZE THIS MOMENT AND UKRAINIANS ARE NOT WEAK ENOUGH TO CAPITULATE.

IF WE LEARN ANYTHING FROM THIS BOOK I WROTE, FOR 35 YEARS, WE HAVE SUCCUMBED TO MISPLACED HOPES AND FEARS, THAT WE COULD DO MORE WITH RUSSIA WE DECEIVE OURSELVES ABOUT RUSSIA AND WE WOULD TRADE UKRAINE BECAUSE WE DID NOT DO ENOUGH TO SECURE THEM AND WE ARE REPEATING THE SAME MISTAKES.

THE LIKELY REPERCUSSIONS ARE, THE RUSSIAN WILL BE EMBOLDENED AND CONDUCT CYBER OPERATIONS, LOOK TO ENGAGE IN HYBRID WARFARE AND MAYBE EVEN ON NATO TERRITORY IN THE BALTICS.

THAT IS WHERE THE DANGER IS.

THE U.S., EITHER CHOOSES NOT TO ACT OR WILL BE DRAWN IN TO THE FRAY, THAT IS DANGEROUS.

ALL BECAUSE OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION APOLOGIST REPEATING THE WORST MISTAKES OF THE PAST.

>> DO YOU THINK THIS COULD BE DONALD TRUMP'S ATTEMPT AT NEGOTIATING SOME OF THOSE THAT ARE VERY CLOSE TO HIM THAT HE IS APPROACHING THIS FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A DEALMAKER, WANTING TO GET THIS WAR TO COME TO AN END, WHICH IS WHAT HE CAMPAIGNED ON, WANTING A NOBEL PEACE PRIZE LIKE PRESIDENT OBAMA DID.

THAT IS ONE ARGUMENT, THAT PERHAPS THIS IS A FLAWED APPROACH TO PEACEMAKING.

BECAUSE YOU DO NOT HAVE, YOU AS THE MEDIATOR CANNOT WANT PEACE MORE THAN THOSE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THE WAR ITSELF.

OR DO YOU THINK IT COULD BE SOMETHING MORE SINISTER AND ALARMING, AND THAT IS A REALIGNMENT OF U.S.

RELATIONSHIPS AND POSTURING WITH ALLIES AND ADVERSARIES?

WHICH IS SOMETHING EUROPE IS WORRIED ABOUT.

>> IT IS A COMBINATION OF THE TWO, THE FORMER SCENARIO, REALIGNMENT, THOSE TRADITIONAL ADVERSARIES ARE EMBRACING DONALD TRUMP.

HE LIKES THE FLATTERY.

HE HAS BEEN A PUTIN FAN BOY FOR A LONG TIME AND OPEN TO THIS RESET .

CALL IT WHAT IT IS, LOOKING TO NORMALIZE RELATIONSHIPS WITH RUSSIA.

IT IS MAXIMUM MALICE AND MAXIMUM IGNORANCE ON THE PART OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, DISPLAYED IN THAT ROOM COME IN THE OVAL OFFICE BY JD VANCE AND DONALD TRUMP NOT RECOGNIZING THE LESSONS OF THE PAST AND HOW ACCOMMODATION TO RUSSIA EMBOLDENS RUSSIA, DOES NOT GET INTO IN ANY WAY COMPROMISE ON THEIR MAXIMALIST OBJECTIVES.

THE MALICE IS THE FACT THAT THEY COULD CARE LESS ABOUT UKRAINE.

THEY ARE HAPPY TO GIVE AWAY UKRAINE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCES FOR EUROPEAN STABILITY AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCE IS IN THE INDO PACIFIC AND THE FACT THE CHINESE WILL SEE THAT THERE IS A DEAL TO BE HAD WITH DONALD TRUMP AND WE ARE IN A MUCH MORE DANGEROUS WORLD WHEN WE START TO TANGLE WITH THE CHINESE, POTENTIALLY WITH MILITARY AGGRESSION AGAINST TAIWAN.

IT IS A VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION I THINK WE NEED TO BE FAR MORE LONG CITED, YOU WOULD HELP SOME OF THE REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, SOME OF THEM HAVE, BUT SMALL NUMBERS, WILL SPEAK UP IN A MORE ROBUST WEIGHT WHEN THEY THINK OF THE DANGER, WHEN THEY SEE THE HORIZON IS U.S.

TROOPS ENDANGERED, U.S.

TROOPS POTENTIAL IN COMBAT BECAUSE WE ARE MAKING HIS MISTAKE AND ENGAGING IN ISOLATION.

THE ADMINISTRATION ITSELF IS NOT SEEN THAT, THEY ARE GETTING LAND BY THE CABINET SECRETARY WHO WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE ADULTS IN THE ROOM.

SENATORS THAT SAY, ABUSING OUR ALLIES IS SOMEHOW A GOOD THING.

IT IS A MISTAKE.

>> THE NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS SPEAKING OUT, A NUMBER OF THEM HAVE ALWAYS BEEN RUSSIA HAWKS, THOSE VOCAL AND PROMINENT ABOUT SPEAKING OUT, THE APPROACH DONALD TRUMP HAS TAKING TO RUSSIA, FAVORING RUSSIA, MISTRUSTING RUSSIA MORE, HAVE BEEN FEW, SENATOR THOM TILLIS SAID THAT THE ONLY PERSON THAT BENEFITS FROM A PAUSE ON U.S. AID TO UKRAINE IS RUSSIA.

HE IS SPEAKING OUT PUBLICLY AND SAY THAT WEARING A UKRAINIAN PIN.

ONE THING THAT IS ON AND DIFFICULT TO SQUARE, ON THE ONE HAND, YOU HAVE PRESIDENT TRUMP AND SOME REPUBLICANS SAYING THAT THEY SHOULD ALL LEAD TO MORE SPENDING FROM EUROPE, EUROPE, BECAUSE THEY SHARE BORDERS WITH UKRAINE AND RUSSIA, SHOULD FRONT THE MOST OF THIS FUNDING.

WE HAVE SEEN EUROPE REALLY COME TOGETHER OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST FEW WEEKS, NOT ONLY THE UK, INCREASING ITS DEFENSE SPENDING AS PART OF THE GDP, MOVING IT UP TO 2.5% TO THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

THE EUROPEAN UNION PROPOSING A $158 BILLION FUND, JUST OVERNIGHT, TO BOLSTER MILITARY SPENDING AND TALK OF THE FROZEN $300 BILLION IN FROZEN RUSSIAN ASSETS TO PUT THAT INTO EFFECT IN TERMS OF PROVIDING AID TO UKRAINE.

THERE IS AN ARGUMENT.

WHEN EUROPE DOES STEP UP, HERE IS HOW THE VICE PRESIDENT VIEWS EUROPE'S ROLE.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID ON FOX NEWS LAST NIGHT.

>> THE BEST SECURITY GUARANTEE IS TO GIVE AMERICANS ECONOMIC UPSIDE IN THE FUTURE OF UKRAINE.

THAT IS A WAY BETTER SECURITY GUARANTEE THAT 20,000 TROOPS FROM SOME RANDOM COUNTRY THAT HAS NOT FOUGHT A WAR IN 30 OR 40 YEARS.

MY DAD DREW OUTRAGE FROM THE UK AND, OBVIOUSLY, A COUNTRY THAT FOUGHT AS -- FOUGHT WITH AMERICA IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN, JD VANCE SEEMED TO WALK BACK THE INTERPRETATIONS OF HIS COMMENTS.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?

IS THE U.S.

POSITION EUROPE SHOULD STEP UP TO THE PLATE OR EUROPE CANNOT DEFEND UKRAINE?

>> THE EUROPEANS COULD STEP UP IN A BIG WAY AND MAKE A MATERIAL CONTRIBUTION TO UKRAINE .

THAT CHANGES THE CALCULATION ABOUT RUSSIA'S KEEPING POWER DOWN THE ROAD.

TALKING ABOUT ,20 TRILLION ECONOMY, 10 TIMES BIGGER THAN RUSSIA.

THEY CAN CONTRIBUTE DEFINITELY WHAT I FIND MOST PROBLEMATIC WITH THE COMMENTS OF JD VANCE, WHO HAS BEEN THROWING HAND GRENADES AND WRECKING RELATIONSHIPS WITH OUR CLOSEST ALLIES, HE IS CONSISTENTLY WRONG.

WE HAD NATO THAT WAS FIGHTING WITH US FOR 20 YEARS IN OUR WARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

THEY ARE TESTED AND PROVEN WHETHER WE DO IN FACT WANT A DEAL WITH UKRAINE, ONE THAT BINDS THE U.S., BECAUSE OF MINERALS AND U.S. INVESTMENTS, I THINK THAT IS A GOOD THING.

WHEN YOU HAVE VALUES AND INTERESTS DRIVING A RELATIONSHIP, THAT IS WHEN WE ARE MOST ENGAGED WITH OUR COUNTERPARTS AND WITH OUR PARTNERS.

IT CANNOT BE AN EXTORTION RACKET.

IT CANNOT BE ABUSING THE GREATEST BUT SOMETHING THAT TETHERS US IS A GOOD THING.

>> WE JUST HAVE A FINAL FEW SECONDS, YOU MENTIONED THE MINERALS DEAL, IT CANNOT BE AN EXTORTION RACKET, THAT IS WHAT A FORMER UK DEFENSE MINISTER DESCRIBED IT AS LAST WEEK, IN HIS POST, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY SAYS HE IS READY TO SIGN A MINERALS DEAL , THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR SAYS, PRIOR TO THE RUPTURE ON FRIDAY, IN THE OVAL OFFICE, THE PRESIDENT WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT IT AND TOUTING THIS STEEL IN HIS ADDRESS TO CONGRESS TONIGHT.

DO YOU THINK THIS IS A BAD DEAL FOR YOU GREAT INSIGHT AND WILL IT GIVE THEM PROTECTION?

>> IT WILL NOT GIVE THE PROTECTION THAT A GOOD DEAL AND IT GETS THE U.S. INVOLVED AND INVESTING IN RECONSTRUCTION.

THE SILVER LINING, AGAIN, NOT AT THE COST OF OUR RELATIONSHIPS BUT THE BURDEN SHARING WITH YOUR IS A NECESSITY, THE EUROPEANS HAVE NOT BEEN DOING ENOUGH WITH REGARDS TO SECURING THEIR OWN BACKYARD AND BURDEN SHARING FOR THE SECURITY AROUND THE GLOBE.

NOT AT THE COST OF WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS DOING, DESTABILIZING OUR RELATIONSHIPS AND MAKING US LOOK LIKE WE ARE FAIR WEATHER FRIENDS OR UNRELIABLE PARTNERS.

AND THE BOLDING OUR ALLIES.

THAT IS THE ONE WAY TO GO ABOUT IT.

I DO NOT SEE HOW THAT YIELDS NET SECURITY FOR THE UNITED STATES.

>> ALEXANDER VINDMAN, ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE YOU AND CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK .

>>> WITH THE UNITED STATES, GROWING CONCERN ABOUT THE SWEEPING CUTS AT HOME AND THEIR IMPACT ON AMERICAN HEALTH.

THE FEAR SHARPENED BY FATAL MEASLES OUTBREAK IN TEXAS WHERE A CHILD HAS TRAGICALLY BECOME THE FIRST U.S. DEATH FROM THE DISEASE IN A DECADE.

THE DISEASE THE U.S. HAD DECLARED ELIMINATED FROM THE COUNTRY 25 YEARS AGO.

THE FIRST MAJOR CHALLENGE FOR THE HEALTH SECRETARY, ROBERT F KENNEDY JR., WHO HAS A LONG TRACK RECORD OF CASTING DOUBT OVER VACCINES LIKE THE MMR WHICH PREVENTS MEASLES.

JOINING ME NOW IS A DOCTOR, THE DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR HEALTH AND HUMAN RIGHTS AT HARVARD UNIVERSITY.

DOCTOR, THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME AND JOINING ME.

AS OF YESTERDAY, 158 MEASLES CASES REPORTED IN WEST TEXAS ALONE ACCORDING TO THE TEXAS STATE HEALTH SERVICES COMMISSIONER.

ONE CHILD HAS DIED.

NINE MORE JURISDICTIONS HAVE REPORTED MEASLES THAT MAKES FROM RHODE ISLAND TO ALASKA.

WE REMEMBER THAT CABINET MEETING WHERE THE HHS SECRETARY , ROBERT F KENNEDY JR., SEEMED TO DOWNPLAY THESE OUTBREAKS, SAYING THAT WE SEE THEM ALL THE TIME.

I AM WONDERING, YOUR PERSPECTIVE, ARE THESE THE TYPES OF OUTBREAKS WE SEE ALL THE TIME AND HOW ALARMED ARE YOU?

>> OF COURSE WE SHOULD BE VERY LARGE, WE HAVE NOT SEEN THE DEATH OF A CHILD FROM MEASLES IN OVER A DECADE IN THIS COUNTRY.

THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.

ACROSS THE COUNTRY, MEASLES VACCINATION, VACCINATIONS AGAINST ALL CHILDHOOD DISEASES HAVE BEEN DRIFTING DOWNWARD.

THE CONFUSION THAT IS RAISED BY VACCINE SKEPTICS, WHICH I THINK PREVIOUSLY AT LEAST, MR. KENNEDY WOULD HAVE CONSIDERED HIMSELF ONE.

MAKES IT LESS LIKELY THAT PEOPLE WILL UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT VACCINATION IS.

NOW, HE DID ISSUE AN OP-ED, IN WHICH HE SAID SOME -- MADE SOME POINTS THAT ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

I THINK THAT WAS A GOOD THING.

HE POINTED OUT THAT IT IS IMPORTANT TO GET VACCINATED AGAINST MEASLES BECAUSE IT PROTECTS YOU.

HE ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED THERE IS A COMMUNITY PROTECTION AFFECT, AND THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.

NOT EVERYONE IS ELIGIBLE FOR THE MEASLES VACCINE.

BUT WHAT HE DID NOT DO, WHAT HE REALLY MUST DO, NOT ONLY GIVE PEOPLE THE FACTS, THOSE ARE FACTS, HE SHOULD ADVISE PEOPLE WITH A NONVACCINATED CHILD TO GET THAT CHILD VACCINATED, THAT HE DID NOT DO.

>> YOU MENTIONED THIS OP-ED HE WROTE FOR FOX NEWS.

LET'S PULL UP A GRAPHIC, THE HEADLINE IS, MEASLES OUTBREAK IS A CALL TO ACTION FOR ALL OF US.

HE DOES EXPRESS DEEP CONCERN ABOUT THE OUTBREAK AND OFFER FEDERAL SUPPORT FOR TEXAS HEALTH AUTHORITIES.

HE SAID, PARENTS PLAY A PIVOTAL ROLE IS REGARDING THE CHILDREN'S HEALTH, ALL PARENTS SHOULD CONSULT WITH THEIR HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS TO UNDERSTAND THEIR OPTIONS, TO GET THE MMR VACCINE, THE DECISION TO VACCINATE IS A PERSONAL ONE.

IS THAT THE LANGUAGE YOU WOULD HAVE USED IN THE SITUATION?

>> NO .

THE HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY SHOULD ADVISE PEOPLE WHO HAVE A NONVACCINATED CHILD WHO NOT -- WHO ARE NOT CERTAIN OF THEIR VACCINATION STATUS, TO GET VACCINATED, THAT IS HOW WE CONTROL OUTBREAKS, BY VACCINATING CHILDREN AND FINDING THE CHILDREN WHO HAVE MEASLES AND KEEPING THEM AWAY FROM OTHER CHILDREN.

VACCINATION IS THE CORE OF THIS.

PARENTS NEED GUIDANCE.

ALL OF US NEED GUIDANCE.

HE IS NOT GIVING THAT GUIDANCE.

>> HE SAID THAT GOOD NUTRITION REMAINS A BEST DEFENSE AGAINST MOST CHRONIC AND INFECTIOUS ILLNESSES.

IT JUST SEEMS TO BE A STRANGE OPPORTUNITY TO THROW THAT LINE IN.

OBVIOUSLY, EVERYONE WANTS TO EAT WELL AND TAKE CARE OF THEIR BODIES, I AM NOT SURE THAT IS THE APPROPRIATE TYPE WHEN YOU'RE WRITING A PIECE ABOUT A MEASLES OUTBREAK.

DOES THE UNITED STATES HAVE THE RESOURCES NECESSARY TO PREVENT FURTHER OUTBREAKS AT THIS POINT?

>> WELL, WE HAVE THE RESOURCES .

OF COURSE, THE CDC, THE WHOLE OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE UNITED STATES AND AROUND THE WORLD, IS BEING AFFECTED BY THE WRECKING BALL THAT IS THIS ADMINISTRATION , THEY THEY ARE TAKING TO THE GLOBAL HEALTH AND PUBLIC HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE AND EVEN THE BASIC SCIENCE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE UNITED STATES.

CERTAINLY, WE HAVE THE RESOURCES TO VACCINATE EVERY CHILD WHO IS ELIGIBLE TO BE VACCINATED.

>> THIS COMES AS A NUMBER OF JOBS ARE BEING CUT IN HHS, THEY EMPLOYED ABOUT 80,000 PEOPLE.

CDC ANNOUNCED A NUMBER OF LAYOFFS AND JOB CUTS AS WELL.

IN TERMS OF JUST RESEARCH FUNDING.

AND FREEZES FOR THAT 16,000 GRAMS GOING FOR ABOUT $1.5 BILLION IN FUNDED HAVE BEEN FROZEN AT THE NIH.

FOR PEOPLE WATCHING AT HOME, THEY JUST SEE A LOT OF NUMBERS, THEY STILL SEE AMERICA AS THE WORLD LEADER IN HEALTHCARE, AND IN RESEARCH.

WHEN THESE NUMBERS ARE ANNOUNCED, WHAT IMPACT DOES THAT ULTIMATELY HAVE IN FREEZING RESEARCH AID, AND LAYING PEOPLE OFF, HOW WILL THAT IMPACT THE AVERAGE AMERICAN WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR HEALTH AND THEIR CHILDREN'S HEALTH?

>> I THINK IT IS WORTH TAKING A STEP BACK AND REMINDING OURSELVES WHAT FEDERAL EXPENDITURES EVERY YEAR, IN THE UNITED STATES.

IT AMOUNTS TO SOMETHING LIKE $6.8 TRILLION IN THE U.S..

IN THE FISCAL YEAR 2024.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

BUT, IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS, THE PERCENT OF THE BUDGET SPENT BY THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE OR BY THE NIH, OR CDC, OR USAID, OR A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE RANGE OF 1%, 2%, 6% FOR THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE.

THESE ARE NOT REALLY ABOUT SHAVING FEDERAL EXPENDITURES IN A MEANINGFUL WAY.

NONETHELESS, THEY WILL HURT COMMUNITIES HERE AND AROUND THE WORLD.

THESE ARE NOT, YOU KNOW I THINK THEY OFTEN, CERTAINLY IT IS TRUE IN PUBLIC HEALTH, WHERE I HAVE WORKED, PEOPLE DO NOT SEE THE WORK THAT WE DO.

THEY WANT THEIR FOOD TO BE SAFE, THEIR AIR TO BE CLEAN, THEY WANT TO FEEL CONFIDENT THAT GOING TO SEE A MEDICAL PROVIDER WHO HAS BEEN APPROPRIATELY TRAINED, ALL OF THESE SORTS OF PROTECTIONS REALLY BECOME VISIBLE TO US WHEN THEY DO NOT WORK.

WHEN THEY ARE WORKING, THEY WORK SILENTLY.

MANY PEOPLE'S LIVELIHOODS ARE ENGAGED AND KEEPING US ALL SAFE.

THESE CUTS WILL MEAN PEOPLE LOSE THEIR JOBS.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WITH HOUSEHOLD AND MORTGAGES, WHO SPEND MONEY IN THE LOCAL ECONOMY.

I AM NOT SURE HOW WELL THOUGHT THROUGH THE IDEA OF FIRING SUMMARILY WITH HARDLY ANY NOTICE , THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

WILL SAVE US ALL MONEY IT WILL HURT OUR ECONOMY'S, IT WILL HURT COMMUNITIES.

I DO NOT THINK THAT HAS BEEN CLEAR TO PEOPLE.

IT WILL ALSO MAKE US LESS SAFE.

>> LESS SAFE, HOW?

>> WE WANT THE HEALTH OF THE PUBLIC HEALTH PROTECTS.

>> YOU THINK ABOUT THESE ARBITRARY CUTS, EVEN AT THE OVAL OFFICE, AT THE CABINET MEETING, WITH THE PRESIDENT LAST WEEK, ELON MUSK TALKED ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE DOING IN TERMS OF DOGE , CUTTING JOBS IN USAID, HE SAYS WE WILL MAKE MISTAKES BUT QUICKLY RECTIFIED THEM, AS HE WAS LAUGHING, SAID, EBOLA, WE MADE SOME CUTS NOBODY WANTS A BOWL OF, SO WE RECTIFIED -- NOBODY WANTS EBOLA, WE RECTIFIED, THAT WAS NOT THE CASE , SOME OF THE FUNDING WAS STILL FROZEN.

WHEN YOU HEAR HEADLINES LIKE THAT, DOES THAT GIVE YOU SECURITY AND COMFORT IN KNOWING THAT THESE CUTS ARE REALLY TAILORED AND THOUGHT THROUGH?

>> THESE HAVE NOT BEEN THOUGHT THROUGH.

THE PEOPLE WHO THEY ARE FIRING ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE EASIEST TO FIRE, NOT THE ONES WHO ARE POTENTIALLY THE MOST STRATEGIC TO FIRE PEOPLE STILL ON PROBATION, WHO HAD FEWER LABOR PROTECTIONS, WHO WERE OFTEN YOUNG PEOPLE AT THE BEGINNING OF A PUBLIC SERVICE CAREER.

SO, THEY ALSO, YOU KNOW, HAVE BEEN SO PRECIPITOUS, THAT THERE WAS NO OPPORTUNITY, IN THE CASE OF OUR GLOBAL HEALTH FUNDING, FOR COUNTRIES TO MAKE ALTERNATIVE ARRANGEMENTS.

NOW, THE REASON WE CONTROL COMMUNICABLE DISEASES, THESE ARE DISEASES THAT CAN SPREAD FROM ONE PERSON TO ANOTHER, MEASLES IS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT.

IS BECAUSE, THAT PROTECTS ALL OF US.

WE LIVE IN A GLOBAL WORLD.

NOT HAVING INTERVENTIONS THAT OFFER PROTECTION FOR HIV OR TB, WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON ALL OF US , THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT SAVING LIVES WE NEVER SEE, THIS IS ABOUT OUR SECURITY AS A NATION AND KEEPING US SAFE IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> AND THE FINAL FEW SECONDS WE HAVE, I WANTED TO ASK YOU TO RESPOND TO A CONVERSATION I HAD WITH PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERT MICHAEL OSTERHOLM IN TERMS OF, WE WERE SPEAKING ABOUT THE BIRD FLU, PANDEMICS IN GENERAL, HIS CONCERN ABOUT A FUTURE PANDEMIC.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID, INFLUENZA IN GENERAL AND FUTURE PANDEMIC, I AM AT A 10 IN TERMS OF ALARM AS TO IF WE WILL SEE ONE IN THE COMING MONTHS AND YEARS.

I AM WONDERING IF YOU WERE WHERE HE IS IN TERMS OF YOUR CONCERN.

>> YES, I AM, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A STRUCTURE, AND ADVISORY STRUCTURE THAT DELIBERATES ON HOW WE SHOULD FORMULATE THE NEW INFLUENZA VACCINE.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT, THIS IS STILL GROWN MOSTLY IN EGGS, AN OLD TECHNOLOGY AND THEY HAD TO GET STARTED ON PLANNING FOR IT.

THAT MEETING WAS CANCELED.

A MEETING ON CHILD IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES WAS POSTPONED AND HAS NOT BEEN RESCHEDULED.

IT IS NOT CLEAR THAT THERE IS A SUFFICIENT SENSE OF THE IMPORTANCE OF ADVANCE PLANNING.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL TO PANDEMIC PREPAREDNESS.

IF WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THE CAPABILITY OF RESPONDING TO AVIAN FLU, WHICH IS IN OUR CHICKENS, CAUSING THE EGG SHORTAGE, AND THE CATTLE, NOT YET SPREADING AMONG PEOPLE.

WE HAVE TO GET READY FOR IT BEFOREHAND.

THE OBLITERATION OF PUBLIC HEALTH STRUCTURES, DISMANTLING OF ADVISORY COMMITTEES, IS A VERY DANGEROUS THING.

>> THERE ARE DEFINITELY CONSEQUENCES FROM AN AD HOC POLICY, WHAT APPEARS TO BE WHAT WE HAVE AT THIS POINT.

DOCTOR, WE HAD TO LEAVE IT THERE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP APARTMENT LONG THREATENED 25% TERRACE ON NEIGHBORS MEXICO AND CANADA CAME INTO EFFECT TODAY, AS DID A DOUBLING OF TARIFFS ON CHINESE IMPORTS TO REPRESENT THEM ALL THREE COUNTRIES HAVE ANNOUNCED THEY WILL RETALIATE AND ADDRESSING DOLLARS AND PERSONALLY, THE PRIME MINISTER OF CANADA HAD THIS TO SAY.

>> IT IS NOT IN MY HABIT TO AGREE WITH THE WALL STREET JOURNAL, BUT, DONALD, THEY POINT OUT, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE A VERY SMART GUY, THIS IS A VERY DUMB THING TO DO.

>> THIS CRAIG MOORE HAS IT U.S. MARKETS PLUNGING, PRICE INCREASES MAY HAPPEN IN DAYS.

MARK SHORT WORKED AS HIS LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS DIRECTOR DURING HIS FIRST TERM AND WAS A CHIEF OF STAFF DO VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE.

THEY DISCUSSED THE TACTICS OF DONALD TRUMP BEFORE HIS DRAMATIC OVAL OFFICE SHOWDOWN WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY .

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM LET'S JUST START WITH THE REALIGNMENT, AS IT IS BEING PERCEIVED, YOU TWEETED ABOUT THIS WEEK'S VERY SAD DAY FOR AMERICA, YOU SAID IT IS SHOCKING TO SEE THE U.S.

ALIGNED WITH NORTH KOREA AND RUSSIA IN A U.N.

RESOLUTION.

A COMPLETE REVERSAL OF THE PREVIOUS TRUMP ADMINISTRATION UKRAINE POLICY.

THIS IS A DEEPLY TROUBLING SHIFT AND A SAD DAY FOR AMERICA.

WHAT ON EARTH IS BEHIND IT?

HE IS PUBLICLY TAKING PUTIN'S TALKING POINTS.

LITERALLY LOOKING PUBLICLY, AS IS THE -- AS IF HE IS NOT ONLY TOSSING ZELENSKYY AND UKRAINE UNDER THE BUS BUT EXTORTING, AS ONE FORMER UK OFFICIAL TOLD ME, WITH THE MINERALS DEAL, EXTORTING LIKE A PROTECTION RACKET, WHY, WHY, WHY?

>> I THINK, CHARITABLY, REPUBLICANS WHO BELIEVE THIS IS A PART OF HIS NEGOTIATING STYLE AND THE PRESIDENT IS LOOKING TO GET BOTH PARTIES AT THE TABLE TO RESOLVE THE CONFLICT.

BUT I AM NOT SURE THAT EXCUSES THE LANGUAGE OF ADOPTING THE KREMLIN TALKING POINTS AND PARTNERING WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN ON THIS.

NOT JUST A DEPARTURE FROM WHERE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS COMING BUT A STARK DEPARTURE ON THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

IF YOU RECALL, IN 2018, THE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT TRUMP, HE WOULD BOAST ABOUT THE FACT THAT , WHEN RUSSIA TO CRIMEA DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, OBAMA MERELY SENT BLANKETS AND WE SAID JAVELIN MISSILES BUT THAT WAS THE APPLAUSE LINE, HE CHAMPIONED WE WERE STANDING WITH UKRAINE AGAINST RUSSIAN AGGRESSION.

IT WAS THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT IMPOSE SIGNIFICANT SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIA.

IT WAS THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT TOOK OUT 100 MERCENARIES IN SYRIA FROM RUSSIA WHEN THEY CROSSED THE RED LINE WHICH THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION DID NOT DO.

THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAD A TRADITIONAL AMERICAN STRENGTH FOREIGN-POLICY.

IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT DEPARTURE OF ADOPTING THE KREMLIN TALKING POINTS AND, FOR MANY AMERICANS, LOOK AT WHO IS COMING TO THE SIDE OF RUSSIA IN THIS WAR, IT HAS BEEN I RUN PROVIDING DRONES -- IRAN PROVIDING DRONES, CHINA PROVIDING FUNDING, RUSSIA CHINA, IRAN, NORTH KOREA, THAT SHOULD SAY WHO REALLY IS THE AGGRESSOR AND WHO REALLY IS THE DICTATOR VERSUS THE DULY ELECTED ZELENSKYY IN UKRAINE.

>> YOU LISTED THOSE COUNTRIES WHO ARE THE ADVERSARIES WITH WHOM THE UNITED STATES VOTED AT THE UNITED NATIONS.

EVEN CHINA ABSTAIN.

WHY?

YOU ARE CORRECT, I WAS IN UKRAINE, THOSE GALAS WERE INSTRUMENTAL IN KEEPING RUSSIA'S FORCES FROM TAKING KYIV IN THE EARLY DAYS AND WEEKS .

WHY IS DONALD TRUMP ACTIVELY AND CONSTANTLY DELEGITIMIZING ONE PARTY, THE ALLIED, ZELENSKYY BY CAUSALLY CALLING HIM A DICTATOR SAYING HE ONLY HAS 4% RATING AND HE WAS NOT ELECTED.

WHY?

WE CANNOT GET TO THE BOTTOM OF WHY THIS CHANGE?

>> I CAN GIVE YOU MY BEST GUEST, THIS COULD BE RHETORICAL NEGOTIATION TO GET ZELENSKYY TO THE POINT OF WANTING TO REACH A PEACE DEAL .

>> ALWAYS ZELENSKYY WHO HAS BEEN TRYING AND NOT PUTIN .

THE ART OF THE DEAL SURELY CANNOT SAY THAT THE BEST NEGOTIATING TACTIC IS TO COMPLETELY DELEGITIMIZE AND WEAKEN THE HAND OF YOUR ALLIED.

>> AGAIN, IF IT IS A QUICK SETTLEMENT, IS THE SOLUTION TO LET RUSSIA KEEP WHAT THEY HAVE TAKEN?

A BIGGER CHALLENGE TO AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY, WHAT IS CHINA LEARNING FROM THIS?

GREAT CONCERN ABOUT CHINA TAKING OVER TAIWAN.

IF THEY ARE SAYING AMERICA IS NOT INTERESTED IN HELPING TO RESOLVE THIS FAVORABLY TO THE NATION INVADED, THAT SENDS A TERRIBLE SIGNAL TO OUR ALLIES IN THE PACIFIC.

TO I THINK PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS ASKED ABOUT TAIWAN, HE DID NOT WANT TO ANSWER IT, SOME PEOPLE SAY, POTENTIALLY, HE MAY NOT CARE ABOUT TAIWAN.

YOU HAVE BEEN IN THE ROOM AND YOU KNOW HIS STYLE, YOU DID THE LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS, IT MEANS DEALING WITH HIS AGENDA IN CONGRESS, ET CETERA.

IF YOU WERE DEALING WITH IT OVERSEAS, DO YOU THINK HE HAS GONE INTO A PLACE WHICH IS ABOUT SPHERES OF INFLUENCE, ONLY TRANSACTIONAL, WHICH IS TO VLADIMIR PUTIN, YOU KEEP WHAT IS YOURS, CHINA, YOU KEEP WHAT IS YOURS AND I WILL HAVE MINE, EXPAND THE TERRITORY, WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT WHAT EACH OTHER IS DOING IN EACH OTHER'S SPHERES?

>> I THINK THERE IS SOME TRUTH TO THAT, HE VIEWS THE WORLD AS OUR BIGGER ADVERSARY, CHINA.

LET'S FOCUS OUR EFFORTS THERE AND NOT WORRY ABOUT THESE OTHER DISPUTES.

IT IS ALWAYS TRANSACTIONAL.

IT COULD CHANGE ON A DIME.

I DO THINK THAT HE DOES HAVE A PERSPECTIVE THAT, THERE ARE MAJOR PLAYERS ON THE WORLD STAGE , INCLUDING AS IN CHINA AND RUSSIA, SOME OF THESE OTHER DISPUTES, WE NEED TO GET OUT OF THE WAY TO SOLVE THE BIGGER CHALLENGES THAT FACE AMERICA.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT IS WHAT I AGREE WITH BUT I THINK THERE IS A PERSPECTIVE BY SOME AROUND THE PRESIDENT TODAY.

>> I WONDER WHETHER YOU DO AGREE WITH SOME OF THE STUFF.

I KNOW THAT SOME OF YOU ARE SAYING, NOT NECESSARILY AND A CHANGE FROM THE FIRST TIME AROUND.

WHAT AFFECTS AMERICA AND WHAT THEY VOTED FOR WAS THE ECONOMY, THEIR POCKETBOOKS.

I JUST HEARD YOU SAY THAT THERE WILL BE A TRADE WAR COMING.

I DO NOT KNOW WHO THAT WILL BE WITH.

EUROPE IS VERY WORD AND DONALD TRUMP SAID THE EU WAS CREATED TO SCEW US, HIS WORDS, TRYING TO FIGHT WITH CANADA AND MEXICO, WHAT WILL THAT MEAN FOR THE AMERICAN CONSUMER, THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR HIM?

>> GREAT QUESTION IS A CONTRAST TO THE FIRST ADMINISTRATION.

THE PRESIDENT HAVE ALWAYS EMBRACED THE PROTECTION AND WHAT SHE BELIEVES FOREIGN COUNTRIES SHOULD BE CHARGING FOR ACCESS TO AMERICAN MARKETS.

IT SEEMS LIKE THERE IS NOT A FULL APPRECIATION THAT THE ACTUAL AMERICAN IMPORTER IS THE ONE PAYING THAT TARIFF, COSTING AMERICAN JOBS AND A SIGNIFICANT TAX ON AMERICAN CONSUMERS.

THE REALITY IS, MUCH OF THE FIRST ADMINISTRATION, TARIFFS WERE A NEGOTIATION PLOY TO GET PEOPLE TO THE TABLE, WITH MEXICO, IS THE DUTY REMAIN IN MEXICO POLICIES.

IN MANY CASES, HE WAS EFFECTIVE AT DOING THAT.

MY POSITION, I THINK IT IS A DIFFERENT SITUATION THIS TIME.

I THINK THE ADVISORS HE HAS ARE THOSE WHO TRULY BELIEVED, LIKE HE DOES COME IN THE BENEFIT ECONOMICALLY OF TARIFFS AND NO LONGER A NATIONAL SECURITY APPARATUS AROUND HIM THAT ARGUES THE BENEFITS OF TRADE HELP US WITH OUR NATIONAL SECURITY CONCERNS ACROSS THE GLOBE.

I THINK THAT HE HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR IN SIGNALING IT ROUGHLY TAKES 90 DAYS FOR U.S. TRADE REPRESENTATIVE TO INSTITUTE AND COMPLETE THEIR STUDIES AND SHOW UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES, WHICH FROM THE DAY OF INAUGURATION, PUT YOU CLOSE TO THE FIRST WEEK IN APRIL WHEN I THINK IT WILL BE PRETTY MUCH A BROADSCALE TARIFF THAT WILL BE ASSESSED, NOT JUST TO THE EU BUT GLOBALLY .

>> THANK YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHTS.

TO BE CONTINUED.

WE WILL WATCH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME FOR A POTENTIAL MINERALS DEAL BETWEEN THE U.S. AND UKRAINE IS STILL ON THE TABLE OUR NEXT GUEST SAYS DONALD TRUMP IS TAKING A PAGE OUT OF THE CHINESE FOREIGN-POLICY PLAYBOOK , AS WE ENTER A NEW ERA OF MINERALS DIPLOMACY.

THE DIRECTOR OF THE CRITICAL MINERAL SECURITY PROGRAM AT THE CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES AND JOINTS HARI SREENIVASAN TO FIGURE OUT WHY LEADERS ARE GOING AFTER THESE PRECIOUS RESOURCES.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

IN THE LAST WEEK, WE SAW A POTENTIAL DEAL BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE FALL APART.

ABOUT MINERAL RIGHTS.

I THINK PEOPLE WERE CAUGHT UP IN THE VIRAL MOMENT THAT HAPPENED IN THE OVAL OFFICE AND ALL THE INFORMATION IN THE NEWS ABOUT THIS ENTIRE MINERAL CONVERSATION GOT VERY LET'S BACK UP A LITTLE BIT AND SET THE TABLE FOR OUR AUDIENCE.

WHAT WAS THE MINERAL RIGHTS DEAL THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO TAKE PLACE?

>> THE ORIGINAL DEAL CALLED FOR UKRAINE TO PAY $500 BILLION BACK TO THE UNITED STATES FOR MILITARY AID THAT HAD BEEN PROVIDED IN EXCHANGE, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY WANTED SECURITY GUARANTEES .

BUT THE U.S. NEVER ACTUALLY SPENT $500 BILLION ON AID IN UKRAINE.

WE KNOW THE FIGURE TO BE CLOSER TO ABOUT $138 BILLION.

THE DEAL GOT NEGOTIATED DOWN AND DOWN AND DOWN AND ULTIMATELY WHERE WE LANDED IS THAT THERE WOULD BE A FUND THAT WOULD BE SET UP, AND ALL FUTURE MINERAL OIL AND GAS PROJECTS WOULD TAKE 50% OF THE REVENUE.

AND PUT IT INTO THIS FUND.

THIS FUND COULD ALSO INVEST IN UKRAINE.

HOWEVER, THE SECURITY GUARANTEE NEVER CAME BACK, WHICH WAS THE POINT OF ULTIMATE CONTENTION.

>> THAT IS, YOU ARE LAYING OUT WHAT BOTH PARTIES WANTED, THE UNITED STATES WANTED A RE- COMPENSATION FOR THE AID WE HAVE GIVEN, AND ON THE OTHER HAND, ZELENSKYY ASSUMES, IF I AM IN A LONG-TERM PARTNERSHIP WITH UNITED STATES, THEY WILL WANT TO PROTECT THEIR ASSETS.

I GET SOME SECURITY >> THAT IS RIGHT, HE WANTED AN EXPLICIT SECURITY GUARANTEE INCLUDED, DONALD TRUMP ARGUED THAT, THE COOPERATION IN AND OF ITSELF WAS AN IMPLICIT SECURITY GUARANTEE.

THAT THERE WOULD BE LESS LIKELIHOOD OF ANOTHER INVASION IF THERE WAS A STRONG RELATIONSHIP WITH THE U.S. >> OKAY, NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT ARE THE MINERALS AT STAKE HERE AND WHY ARE WE INTRIGUED BY WHAT IS INSIDE, UNDERNEATH THE SOIL OF UKRAINE.

>> A VARIETY OF RESOURCES, EVERYTHING FROM OIL AND GAS, COAL, GRAPHITE, URANIUM, TITANIUM, BUT WHAT WE'RE REALLY AFTER WHERE THE RARE, A GROUP OF 17 ELEMENTS, THEY ARE ACTUALLY A BIT OF A MISNOMER, THEY ARE NOT ACTUALLY RARE, THEY ARE EVERYWHERE THAT THEY OCCUR IN SMALL QUANTITIES.

THEY ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO EXTRACT.

OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, THE U.S. HAS REALLY PRIORITIZE RARE BECAUSE THEY WOULD WEBINARS BY CHINA -- IN 2010, CHINA CUT OFF RARE EARTH EXPORTS TO JAPAN OVER A FISHING TRAWLER DISPUTE.

SINCE THEN, THEY HAVE ROLLED OUT A SET OF RESTRICTIONS ON THE U.S., RARE EARTH, WHILE USING ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES, ARE VITAL FOR OUR DEFENSE.

WE USE THEM IN MISSILES, LASERS, TANKS, WARSHIPS, FIGHTER JETS, ALL MUNITIONS.

WHAT THE U.S. DID, BECAUSE CHINA HAS 90% OF THE WORLD'S PROCESSING CAPABILITIES IS WE DECIDED FIVE YEARS AGO THAT WE WERE GOING TO LEVERAGE OUR DEFENSE PRODUCTION ACT AND WE THROUGH FEDERAL FUNDING AT $300 MILLION.

TO BUILD RARE EARTH SEPARATION FACILITIES AT HOME IN AMERICA.

THE BIG DILEMMA IS, THE GEOLOGY DOES NOT TOTALLY FAVOR AS.

WE HAVE ABOUT 1.3% OF THE WORLD'S RARE EARTH, WHICH ARE NOT REALLY ENOUGH TO FEED THE PROCESS CAPABILITIES WE ARE BUILDING.

EVEN UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN, THE DEVELOPMENT FINANCE CORPORATION , WAS STARTING FINANCING FOR A RARE EARTH PROJECT IN BRAZIL.

WE SAW A RAPID ESCALATION OF THAT UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP WE SAW HIM TALK ABOUT RARE EARTH FROM GREENLAND AND UKRAINE, BASICALLY, HE IS DEVELOPING A STRATEGY IN A WAY TO SOURCE RARE EARTHS FROM OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD AND BRING THEM HOME , PROCESS AT HOME, AND MANUFACTURE THOSE DEFENSE TECHNOLOGIES.

>> HOW MUCH OF THE AREA IN UKRAINE THAT MAY HAVE THESE MINERALS IS NOW UNDER RUSSIAN CONTROL TERRITORY VERSUS THE UKRAINIAN TAX >> THE DOME AS REGION IS RESOURCE RICH, WE HAVE GRAPHITE, RARE EARTHS, COAL, FROM THE PRELIMINARY DECADES, RARE EARTHS DO EXIST IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY ONE THING THAT HAS BEEN NOTICEABLE, THERE HAS BEEN A LACK OF PRIVATE SECTOR VOICE IN ADVOCATING FOR THIS AGREEMENT, PART OF IT IS, THE PRIVATE SECTOR DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO GO THERE.

YOU HAVE MULTIPLE CHALLENGES.

THE FIRST ONE IS MAPPING.

THE SECOND IS MINING IS INCREDIBLE -- INCREDIBLY ENERGY INTENSE, GLOBALLY IT USES 60% OF THE WORLD'S ELECTRICITY.

ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE HAS BEEN DAMAGED IN THE WAR.

THE THIRD THING IS BUT THE LOOMING RISK THAT SITS ACROSS THE BORDER.

THIS IS WHERE WE DISAGREE AND THE NEGOTIATIONS BLEW UP.

AGAIN, ZELENSKYY IS LIKE, I WANT AN EXPLICIT SECURITY GUARANTEE , THE PRIVATE SECTOR WOULD LIKE AN EXPLICIT SECURITY GUARANTEE.

BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, FROM THE TIME WE START LOOKING AT AN ASSET, IT IS 18 YEARS ON AVERAGE GLOBALLY JUST TO BUILD THE MIND.

-- JUST A BUILDUP MINE, IT CAN RUN 30 TO 80 YEARS, THAT IS 100 YEARS, ZELENSKYY IS NOT SURE HE IS WILLING TO MAKE A LONG-TERM BET , A MINE CAN COST $500 MILLION-$1 BILLION, WHAT IF VLADIMIR PUTIN WAS TO -- >> AN INTERESTING REDRAWING OF ALLIANCES BASED ON THESE MINERALS AND HOW HARD THEY ARE GOING TO BE TO GET, ESPECIALLY HOW IMPORTANT AND HUNGRY WE ARE FOR THEM NOW.

IT SEEMS LIKE, FOREIGN-POLICY IS NOW POTENTIALLY BEING DRIVEN BY OUR ACCESS TO THESE RESOURCES.

WE HAVE BEEN IN THAT BOAT BEFORE, 30 TO 50 YEARS AGO, MAYBE DIFFERENT MINERALS.

>> WE HAVE DONE IT WITH OIL FOR A LONG TIME.

THE REASON CHINA HAS BUILT THIS EVENT IS, THEY LINKED UP THERE FOREIGN-POLICY IN AFRICA, LATIN AMERICA, ASIA, TO THEIR DOMESTIC INDUSTRIAL STRATEGY.

PEOPLE DO NOT REALIZE THEY ONLY HAVE ABOUT 10% OF THE WORLDS NICKEL, COBALT, LITHIUM, BUT WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IS PROCESS BETWEEN 40% AND 90%, THEY HAVE STRATEGICALLY SOURCED FROM AROUND THE WORLD AND THEY BRING THEM BACK HOME FOR PROCESSING AND THEY HAVE ESTABLISHED COMPLETE DOMINANCE.

DONALD TRUMP IS TRYING TO TAKE A PAGE OUT OF THIS PLAYBOOK TO SAY, LET ME SOURCED FROM ALL OF THESE OTHER COUNTRIES AND BRING IT BACK HOME.

>> WHICH IS A CASE EXAMPLE OF HOW INTERCONNECTED THE WORLD IS.

ON THE ONE HAND, POLICY MAY SAY, I WANT TO BE AMERICA FIRST, WHAT YOU'RE POINTING OUT WITH THIS, YOU ARE INTERDEPENDENT ON ALL THESE COUNTRIES, WHERE THE MINERALS ARE SITTING IN THE GROUND, EVEN IF YOU HAVE THE FACTOR CAPACITY TO PROCESS THEM.

>> ABSOLUTELY YOU SEE THIS WITH THE EXECUTIVE ORDER ON ENERGY FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP, HE TALKS ABOUT MINING AT HOME AND ABROAD.

EVEN IN THE AMERICA FIRST AGENDA , HE HAS NOT TAKEN OUT THE FACT THAT WE HAVE TO GO GLOBAL.

IF WE WANT TO SECURE MINERALS.

BECAUSE WE DO HAVE LIMITED GEOLOGY.

>> EXPLAINED TO OUR AUDIENCE ABOUT HOW CHINA HAS SHAPED THERE FOREIGN-POLICY AROUND MINING AND MINERALS.

>> CHINA HAS INVESTMENTS IN FOREIGN POLICY LARGELY TARGETING MINERAL RICH JURISDICTIONS.

FOR EXAMPLE, CHILE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST COUNTRIES TO BECOME PART OF THE BELT AND ROAD INITIATIVE AND THEY PROVIDE A THIRD OF CHINA'S COPPER THAT THEY REFINE IN CHINA AND PROCESS AND MANUFACTURE IN IMPORTANT TECHNOLOGIES IF WE LOOK AT AFRICA, BELT AND ROAD INVESTMENT IS YOU STRATEGICALLY, AN EXAMPLE IN 2007, DRC HAD COME OUT OF THE CONFLICT AND CHINA NEGOTIATED A DEAL, PROVIDING $3 BILLION OF INFRASTRUCTURE TO THE DRC IN EXCHANGE FOR ACCESS TO $93 BILLION OF COBALT AND COPPER IN THE COPPER BELT.

TODAY, 15 OF THE 19 BIGGEST COBALT AND COMPROMISE ARE OWNED BY CHINESE COMPANIES.

IT WAS A STRATEGIC AND LONG-TERM BET WHERE THEY PROVIDED THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO DEVELOP THE COUNTRY.

AT A TIME WHEN NO OTHER COUNTRY WANTED TO PROVIDE THAT CAPITAL.

IN EXCHANGE, THEY HAVE SECURED ALMOST ALL OF THEIR COBALT SUPPLY COMING FROM THE DRC.

>> HOW DOES THE U.S.

STAND TOWARDS CHINA RIGHT NOW COMPLICATE THINGS?

RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE AN INCREDIBLY STRONG RHETORIC, ALSO, THREATENING TARIFFS UPON TARIFFS.

>> OUR POLICY WITH CHINA IS DRIVING US IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

A LOT OF THESE EFFORTS WITH AGGRESSIVE MINERAL DIPLOMACY AND EFFORTS TO BUILD THE SUPPLY CHAINS, IS WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF REDUCING RELIANCE ON CHINA.

LIVING IN WASHINGTON COME I CAN TELL YOU, THE EASIEST WAY TO GIVE IT SOMEONE OF AN IDEA IS TO EXPLAIN TO THEM THAT WE ARE AT RISK IN CHINA AND THE REPUBLICANS AND THE DEMOCRATS WILL MOVE.

MINERALS ARE ONE OF THE MOST BIPARTISAN ISSUES IN WASHINGTON.

IN FACT, SHORTLY AFTER INAUGURATION, I WAS SPEAKING TO A SENATOR'S OFFICE AND THEY SAID, WE THINK MINERALS MAY BE THE ONLY AREAS WE CAN COWRITE A BILL AND NOW.

THAT IS THE TIME WE ARE IN WASHINGTON.

IT TOUCHES ON DEPARTMENTS OF DEFENSE, STATE, INTERIOR, COMMERCE, IT IS FAR-REACHING.

15 GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS WORKING ON MINERALS.

IT IS A COUNTERING CHINA EFFORT.

>> IS THERE A POTENTIAL, ARE THERE ANY MINERALS THAT WERE SO NECESSARY TO US THAT WE WOULD GO TO WAR FOR THEM?

WHAT IS IN MY CELL PHONE RIGHT NOW?

WHAT MAY BE IN AN ELECTRIC CAR BATTERY?

SOMETHING THAT, AS YOU POINTED OUT, IN A MISSILE OR OTHER WEAPONS SYSTEM?

>> THE ONES IN OUR DEFENSE TECHNOLOGIES, WHERE CHINA HAS BEEN HITTING THE HARDEST LATELY.

SOME OF THE RECENT RESTRICTIONS HAVE BEEN ON ANTIMONY, TUNGSTEN , PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT TITANIUM.

THESE ARE REALLY HARD MATERIALS .

IF YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE RESTRICTIONS CHINA ROLLED OUT THE FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER IN 2024, THEY ACTUALLY LEFT OPEN A PROVISION FOR OTHER SUPERHARD MATERIALS.

SURE ENOUGH, TUNGSTEN CAME AFTER THAT.

THOSE ARE THE CRITICAL VULNERABILITIES WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW.

FOR SOME OF THESE, THE U.S.

DOES NOT HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE SUPPLY.

>> YOU ARE IN CANADA RIGHT NOW FOR A CONFERENCE ABOUT THIS.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT, LOOK, THEY MAY BE TALKING ABOUT MINING AND MINERALS MOST OF THE TIME HIM ABOUT THE GEOPOLITICS OF THIS HAD BECOME CONSIDERED TO THE REST OF US OVER THE LAST COUPLE WEEKS.

>> A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF FRUSTRATION.

YOU ARE WILLING TO GO TO UKRAINE AND MAKE A DEAL WITH MINERALS THAT WE DO NOT KNOW ENTIRELY WHAT IS THERE AND COMMERCIALLY ATTRACTIVE IT, BUT TRY TO ROLLOUT TARIFFS ON CANADA, AN IMPORTANT ALLY.

THE BIGGEST SUPPLIER OF NICKEL, WHICH IS VITAL FOR DEFENSE TECHNOLOGY.

AUTOMOTIVE MANUFACTURING.

HUGE SUPPLIER OF URANIUM, HOW WE NEED OUR NUCLEAR ENERGY.

WE GET ONE FIFTH OF OUR POWER IN THE U.S. FROM NUCLEAR G, WE DO NOT PRODUCE MUCH URANIUM.

THERE IS A COGNITIVE DISSONANCE EXISTING IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, EVEN WITH POLICYMAKERS WORLDWIDE , WE ARE IN CANADA THIS WEEK FOR THIS CONFERENCE, TO GO, OKAY , WE'RE WILLING TO MAKE THESE DEALS AND PLACES THAT ARE HARD AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR DOES NOT WANT TO GO, BUT WE HAVE OUR STABLE ALLIES THAT ARE HERE AND PENALIZING THEM WHEN THEY COULD BE STRATEGIC IN REDUCING OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA.

>> IF WE ARE TRYING TO DO THIS, IS THE INTENTION IN THE RIGHT PLACE?

BECAUSE, IT SEEMS LIKE, IF CHINA CONTROLS SUCH AN ENORMOUS QUANTITY OF MINERALS THAT WE NEED, IN INTENSE AMOUNTS , SHOULD WE BE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO ACQUIRE OUR OWN STEADY SUPPLY OF THOSE THINGS?

>> THAT IS THE GOAL OF WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO.

IF WE LOOK AT THE LAST FIVE YEARS, WE HAVE OUR DEVELOPMENT AND FINANCE CORPORATION AND HOW THE U.S. FUNDS PROJECTS ABROAD, WE OWN PART EQUITY IN A RARE EARTHS PROJECT IN SOUTH AFRICA AND PART EQUITY IN A PROJECT , A NICKEL PROJECT IN BRAZIL, WE DID A LOAN FOR A GRAPHITE PROJECT IN MOZAMBIQUE THAT FEEDS BACK TO LOUISIANA.

IT IS A GROWING EFFORT TO WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW IS BUILDING, FOUR PHENOMENAL YEARS, WHEN I LIKE TO GO MINERALS DIPLOMACY THE TACTICS BY DONALD TRUMP IS MORE AGGRESSIVE.

IN TERMS OF MAKING IT POTENTIALLY THE END OF THE WAR, HITCHING AID TO IT, TALKING ABOUT ANNEXING, IT IS A STRATEGY WE HAVE BUILT OVER TIME BECAUSE WE WILL NOT COUNTER CHINA ALONE.

IT IS PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

>> MINERALS DIPLOMACY, WHAT ARE THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES WHEN A COUNTRY GETS INCREDIBLY RICH AND INCREDIBLY FAST?

HOW DO YOU PROTECT FROM MAKING SURE THAT COUNTRY DOES NOT GET AGGRESSIVE TOWARDS HIS NEIGHBORS , WHERE ALL THE MONEY GOES TO A DICTATOR THAT IS HORRIBLE TO THE PEOPLE?

>> THE SHORT ANSWER IS WE CAN'T.

AS A GOVERNMENT, THIS $150 MILLION LOAN TO A GRAPHITE PROJECT IN MOZAMBIQUE, A CIVIL WAR STOPPED THE PROJECT AND IT STOPPED.

NATURAL RESOURCES ARE HISTORICALLY DRIVEN AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF COPPER GLOBALLY.

ANYTIME YOU CAN GRAB CAPITAL, GIVES WAY TO TENSION AND CHALLENGES.

WE ARE STARTING TO SEE THAT PLAY OUT.

RIGHT BEFORE THIS -- ZELENSKYY CAME TO THE U.S., VLADIMIR PUTIN ANNOUNCED HE WAS WILLING TO NEGOTIATE AND TRY TO MAKE A MINERALS AGREEMENT.

HE DID NOT JUST NEGOTIATE THE MINERALS ON RUSSIAN LAND, HE WAS WILLING TO DO IT WITH MINERALS ON RUSSIAN OCCUPIED LAND.

WHICH IS A BIT OF A RED FLAG.

WE HAVE SEEN THAT HIS WILLINGNESS TO NEGOTIATE WITH LAND THAT IS NOT HIS IS PART OF WHY THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS GOING, DOES THAT MEAN HE WILL NOT FURTHER EXPROPRIATE LAND AND TAKE IT WHEN THE INVESTMENT IS HERE.

WE HAVE SEEN A DRIVER OF CONFLICT ESCALATE.

>> ARE WE CREATING ODD INCENTIVES?

IF THE PRICE OF TITANIUM, WHICHEVER MINERAL JUST KEEPS GOING TO THE ROOF, IS A THERE AN INCENTIVE FOR ONE COUNTRY TO LOOK OVER ACROSS THE BORDER AND SAY, HE OR SHE HAS SOME RIGHT THERE, LET ME SEND SOME TANKS AND SECURE THE AREA?

>> THIS IS WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO AND RWANDA, THE DRC PRESIDENT LAST WEEK ASKED PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR A CRITICAL MINERALS AGREEMENT IN EXCHANGE FOR MILITARY SUPPORT.

FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW, RWANDA, UNDER KAGAME, HAS BEEN SMUGGLING RESOURCES OUT AND BRINGING THEM BACK AND RWANDA.

RWANDA IS A TINY COUNTRY.

THEY CITE A CRITICAL MINERALS AGREEMENT WITH THE EU, THE CONGO IS GOING, THOSE ARE OUR RESOURCES YOU ARE SIGNING AN AGREEMENT WITH AND SMUGGLING THEM THROUGH AND FUNDING CONFLICT.

IT DOES CREATE A LOT OF PERVERSE INCENTIVES.

SPEAKING CANDIDLY, IF THE U.S. IS TO SUCCEED IN HIS MINERALS DIPLOMACY, IT WILL BETTER NEED TO LEVERAGE SECURITY FORCES ANYWAY ULTIMATELY, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT, WHEN WE ARE MAKING INVESTMENTS, OUR PEOPLE AND OUR ASSETS ARE SAFE.

WHEN YOU TALK TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN A NUMBER OF THESE PLACES, FROM THE CONGO TO UKRAINE, MALI, WE CAN'T GO IN WITHOUT A SENSE OF PROTECTION BECAUSE THE RISK DOES REMAIN.

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