>>> HELLO, EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WE ARE JUST GETTING STARTED.

>> TRUMP PROMOTES HIS PLAN FOR AMERICA, TAKING A CHAINSAW TO GOVERNMENT AND THE WORLD ORDER.

DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN SETH MOULTON WITH THE RESPONSE.

THEN, THE CHILLING EFFECT AS THE MEDIA COMES UNDER ATTACK.

FORMER EXECUTIVE EDITOR OF THE WASHINGTON POST, MARTY BARON, JOINS US.

ALSO AHEAD, -- >> WE SHOULD BE CELEBRATING.

AND THESE ARE THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO REALLY DEFEND DEMOCRACY.

>> MICHEL MARTIN SPEAKS WITH ELAINE WEISS ABOUT HER NEW BOOK, SMELL FREEDOM.

THE UNDERGROUND SCHOOLS THAT HELD THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

>> ♪ ♪ >>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WE ARE, THE SYLVIA A AND SIMON B POYNTER PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM.

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THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

FEAR AND VOLATILITY IS DRIVING GLOBAL MARKETS IN RESPONSE TO THE NEW TRUMP TARIFFS ON ALLIES AND ADVERSARIES.

AND IN HIS ADDRESS TO A JOINT SESSION OF CONGRESS TUESDAY NIGHT PRESIDENT TRUMP ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THERE WILL BE, QUOTE, A LITTLE DISTURBANCE AHEAD.

THE THEME WAS MEANT TO BE THE RENEWAL OF THE AMERICAN DREAM.

INSTEAD, HE DOUBLED DOWN ON HIS PLAN TO BREAK UP THE GLOBAL ECONOMIC ORDER.

>> APRIL 2nd RECIPROCAL TARIFFS KICK IN.

AND WHATEVER THEY TARO FOR US, OTHER COUNTRIES, WE WILL TARIFF THEM.

>> AMERICA MUST NOW DEAL WITH TWO MASSIVE WARS, POSSIBLE TRADE WAR AND RUSSIA'S WAR IN UKRAINE.

PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU OF CANADA NOT MINCING WORDS ABOUT THE HEAD SPINNING AMERICAN PIVOT.

>> THE UNITED STATES WANTS TO TRADE WAR AGAINST CANADA.

THEIR CLOSEST PARTNER AND I LIKE, THEIR CLOSEST FRIEND.

AT THE SAME TIME, THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT WORKING POSITIVELY WITH RUSSIA, APPEASING VLADIMIR PUTIN, ALLYING MURDERS DICTATOR.

MAKE THAT MAKE SENSE.

>> TRUMP ANDREW HAVE SPOKEN AND TRUMP ALSO ACKNOWLEDGED PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY'S EFFORTS TO REPAIR THEIR RELATIONSHIP AFTER LAST FRIDAY'S OVAL OFFICE BUST UP.

HE MADE NO MENTION OF REVERSING HIS A SUSPENSION OF U.S. MILITARY AID WHILE THE CIA DIRECTOR TODAY CONFIRMED THE U.S. HAS PAUSED INTELLIGENCE AND SUPPORT UKRAINE.

THOMAS MINCH SETH MOULTON ATTENDED THE ADDRESS LAST NIGHT AND SUMMED UP THE SITUATION BY SAYING, RUSSIA'S STOCK IS UP, CHINA'S STOCK IS UP AN AMERICAN STOCK IS DOWN.

THE STATE OF THE UNION IS NOT GOOD.

HE'S A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE AND HE'S JOINING US NOW FROM WASHINGTON.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

CAN YOU ANSWER JUSTIN TRUDEAU, THE PRIME MINISTER'S QUESTION, MAKE THAT MAKE SENSE?

THE TRADE WAR ON ALLIES WHILE, AS JUSTIN TRUDEAU SAID, DEALING WITH A MURDEROUS DICTATOR, VLADIMIR PUTIN.

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AT ALL.

AND I'M NOT PROUD TO STAND HER AS AN AMERICAN, LET ALONE A REPRESENTATIVE OF OUR GOVERNMENT AND SAY THAT TO A FOREIGN LEADER.

WE HAVE OUR POLITICAL DISPUTES.

THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO END AT THE WATERS EDGE.

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE UNITED AS A COUNTRY, WHEN IT COMES TO DEALING WITH BOTH OUR ALLIES AND OUR ADVERSARIES.

THERE IS NO UNITY IN AMERICA ON THIS POINT WE ARE SELLING OUR ALLIES OUT AND WE ARE COZYING UP TO DICTATORS UNDER DONALD TRUMP.

>> WHY?

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT?

WHAT IS THE OVERARCHING PLAN OR VISION?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S A FEW DIFFERENT THINGS GOING ON AT ONCE HERE.

HE OBVIOUSLY BELIEVES IT'S GOOD FOR OUR ECONOMY TO PUT MASSIVE TARIFFS ON OTHER COUNTRIES.

AND HE SOMEHOW THINKS THAT THAT IS GOING TO HELP US.

I CAN'T FIND AN ECONOMIST WHO AGREES WITH THIS GUY KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS AND EVEN ADVISERS IN HIS OWN AND ADMINISTRATION WHO ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS APPROACH.

THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS TO DO.

UNDERSTANDABLY, IT ALIENATES A LOT OF OUR ALLIES.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU SAID IT PRETTY WELL.

CANADA IS OUR CLOSEST FRIEND AND THIS IS PUSHING THEM AWAY.

AT THE SAME TIME, HE MADE THIS CAMPAIGN PROMISE TO END THE UKRAINE WAR ON DAY ONE.

WHILE WE ARE A LONG TIME PASSED DAY ONE, HE OBVIOUSLY FAILED TO FULFILL THAT PROMISE WHAT HE IS WILLING TO GET PEACE AT ALL COSTS, EVEN SELLING OUT TO RUSSIA.

DONALD TRUMP HAS HAD A LONG- STANDING RELATIONSHIP WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT HE HAS COZIED UP TO RUSSIA.

REMEMBER, THERE WAS A TIME BACK IN HIS FIRST TERM WHEN HADLEY SAID HE TRUSTS MORE THAN THE CIA.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY WHEN YOU HAVE A COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF WHO TRUST WHO DID MORE THAN THE CIA.

OF COURSE, DONALD TRUMP IS SOMEONE WHO REFUSED TO SERVE HIMSELF WHEN HE WAS ASKED TO SERVE IN THE MILITARY IN VIETNAM.

HE CREATED A MEDICAL EXCUSE.

MADE SOMETHING UP HE LIED ABOUT HIS MEDICAL CONDITION TO DODGE THE DRAFT.

THIS IS NOT SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT IT MEANS TO PUT YOUR LIFE ON THE LINE FOR THE COUNTRY, AS PEOPLE IN THE CIA DO.

SOMEHOW WE FIND SOME COMMONALITY WITH THIS MURDEROUS DICTATOR IN RUSSIA.>> YOU HAVE SERVED YOUR COUNTRY AS WELL.

I'M GOING TO ASK ABOUT THE MILITARY CONSEQUENCES OF WHAT IS GOING ON FOR UKRAINE AND FOR EUROPE AND FOR THE UNITED STATES.

FIRST, JUST TO GET BACK TO THESE TARIFFS.

THE PRESIDENT CAMPAIGNED ON LOWERING PRICES, THE COST OF LIVING FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE COST OF LIVING.

LAST NIGHT ON TARIFFS HE WAS QUITE SPECIFIC.

JUST LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAID.

>> THE TARIFFS WILL GO ON AGRICULTURAL PRODUCT COMING INTO AMERICA.

OUR FARMERS STARTING ON APRIL 2nd, IT MAY BE A LITTLE BIT OF AN ADJUSTMENT, WE HAD THAT BEFORE WHEN I MADE THE DEAL WITH CHINA AND $50 BILLION OF PURCHASES I SAID, JUST BEAR WITH ME.

THEY DID.

THEY DID.

PROBABLY HAVE TO BEAR WITH ME AGAIN.

THIS WILL BE EVEN BETTER.

THAT WAS GREAT.>> HE IS OBVIOUSLY ACKNOWLEDGING THE DISQUIET AMONG MANY CENTERS OF AMERICA.

THE ROWDY TOWN HALLS ABOUT YOU KNOW, VARIOUS THINGS.

ESPECIALLY IN RED STATES.

BUT HE IS BASICALLY SAYING THAT THE PRICES MIGHT NOT COME DOWN.

IN JUST ONE OTHER THING, EXPERTS HAVE SAID THAT ACTUALLY THAT TO WITH CHINA WAS NOT VERY GOOD.

CHINA GOT THE BETTER END OF THAT.

IN HIS FIRST TERM.

>> YOU SAID IT BEFORE I DID.

THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING TO START.

THAT DEAL WASN'T GOOD FOR THE UNITED STATES.

IT DIDN'T WORK OUT THE WAY TRUMP SOLD IT.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO WORK OUT THE WAY HE SELLS IT EITHER.

PRICES ARE GOING TO GO UP NOT JUST FOR FARMERS, IS NOT JUST WOULD BE HARDER TO BE A FARMER IN AMERICA HIM AS A RESULT OF THESE TARIFFS, BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TROUBLE SELLING THEIR PRODUCTS OVERSEAS.

WE HAVE A HUGE EXPORT PRODUCT FOR OUR AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS IT'S GOING TO BE HARD FOR AMERICANS WHO ARE JUST TRYING TO PAY THE BILLS.

IT'S EXTRAORDINARY HOW MUCH A DOZEN EGGS COST IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW.

FOUR TIMES WHAT IT DID JUST SIX MONTHS AGO.

AND THOSE PRICES CONTINUE TO GO UP DONALD TRUMP AGAIN SAID ON DAY ONE PRICES ARE GOING TO GO DOWN.

WHAT THEY HAVE GONE IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

AND THEY KEEP GOING UP.

PRICES ARE GOING UP.

THE ONLY THING THAT'S GOING DOWN IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW IS THE STOCK MARKET.

>> I JUST WANT TO QUOTE FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL.

BECAUSE IT IS THE BUSINESS NEWSPAPER IT SAYS COME THE WORLD ECONOMY COULD FACE A CRASH SIMILAR TO THE GREAT DEPRESSION OF THE 1930s UNLESS THE U.S. ROSE BACK ON ITS PLANS TO IMPOSE STEEP TARIFFS ON IMPORTS.

THIS IS A SENIOR OFFICIAL AT THE INTERNATIONAL CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, WHICH WAS QUOTED IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL.

PUTS US IN A REMARKABLY PRECARIOUS POSITION THAT WILL CLOUD THE GLOBAL ECONOMY IN THE COMING MONTHS.

DO YOU THINK,, THAT'S VERY, VERY WORRYING, CERTAINLY FOR EVERY OVERSEAS.

DO YOU THINK THAT WILL AFFECT AMERICANS AS WELL?

>>, ABSOLUTELY.

THERE IS NO QUESTION IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR CONSUMERS AT HOME.

WHEN YOU PUT A TARIFF ON SOME GOOD THAT HAS COME INTO THE UNITED STATES AND THAT'S NOT PAID BY CHINA OR WHATEVER OTHER COUNTRY THAT IS COMING FROM.

IT'S PAID BY THE CONSUMER.

YOU KNOW?

IF I BOUGHT A BATTERY FROM CHINA THEY CAUSED $5.00 AND NOW CAUSE $7.00.

I'M THING THAT INCREASING COST.

SOMEHOW TRUMP IS TRYING TO SELL THIS AS IF THE COST IS PAID FOR BY CHINA AND THAT GOES RIGHT TO OUR BOTTOM LINE.

THE BUSINESS WORLD KNOWS THIS IS BAD.

THE COLLECTIVE INTELLIGENCE OF THE STOCK WORLD KNOWS THIS IS BAD.

THAT'S WHY STOCKS ARE TAKING A NOSEDIVE.

THIS IS GOING TO BE TERRIBLE FOR OUR ECONOMY.

WHAT YOUR POINT, IT'S NOT JUST THE ECONOMY AT LARGE.

IT'S NOT JUST WHETHER OR NOT WE HAVE SORT OF A GLOBAL DEPRESSION.

IT'S JUST EVERY SINGLE DAY AMERICANS ARE GOING TO PAY MORE FOR THE THINGS THEY NEED.

>> I'M GOING TO GET TO MAYBE SOME PUSHBACK OR WHATEVER FROM REPUBLICANS AND OTHERS IN CONGRESS.

FIRST, I WANT TO ASK ABOUT UKRAINE.

THIS IS A HUGE MASSIVE DEAL.

OVERSEAS THERE IS A GENUINE FEAR ABOUT WHICH WAY AMERICA IS GOING.

WHICH WAY IT'S ALIGNING ITSELF.

IT APPEARS AGAINST ALLIES, TOWARDS PUTIN.

CAN I JUST READ YOU WHAT THE CONSERVATIVE FRENCH PRIME MINISTER SAID IN HIS PARLIAMENT THIS WEEK?

QUOTED BY THE NEW YORK TIMES ON A UKRAINE DEBATE.

HE SAID, WE HAVE RUDELY DISCOVERED OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS A STUNNING REALITY THAT THE INTERNATIONAL RULE OF LAW IS BROKEN.

TALKING ABOUT THE NIGHT STATES.

HE SAYS, THEY WANT TO ENCIRCLE US TO SUBJUGATE US, TO BEND US TO THE LAW OF THE STRONGEST.

THIS ON THE PART OF OUR ALLIES.

PRESIDENT MACRON WHO IS TRYING TO COME UP WITH A PEACE DEAL AND HAS OFFERED TROOPS, ET CETERA, TO ENFORCE, HAS AND WILL WANT PEACE IN UKRAINE, BUT NOT AT ANY PRICE.

WHY DO YOU, FIRST, REACT TO THAT VIEW FROM THE FRENCH PRIME MINISTER.>> FIRST OF ALL, IT'S A TOTAL REASONABLE TRUE -- VIEW THAT'S HELD BY THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS.

THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE OVERSEAS TO UNDERSTAND, TRUMP IS REALLY ON AN ISLAND HERE.

HIT HAS A BUNCH OF ISOLATIONIST REPUBLICANS SUPPORTING HIM I WAS AT THE MUNICH SECURITY COMMENTS TWO WEEKS AGO.

I SAT IN A BIPARTISAN DELEGATION, REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, AS WE MET WITH OUR EUROPEAN AIRLINES.

AS WE MET WITH ZELENSKYY AND WHAT YOU HEARD WAS UNANIMOUS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE.

SO, REPUBLICANS ARE THE ONES WHO ARE SUDDENLY CHANGING THEIR STORY TO SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT IN HIS CRAZY CRUSADE TO BACK VLADIMIR PUTIN IN THIS MURDEROUS WAR.

THE PRESIDENT CHANGES HIS TUNE AND SUDDENLY YOU HAVE PROMINENT REPUBLICANS, LIKE LINDSEY GRAHAM, AND WHOLE BUNCH OF RANK- AND-FILE REPUBLICANS AS WELL, SUDDENLY COMPLETELY SPENDING THEIR STORIES TO JUSTIFY SUPPORTING TRUMP.

THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU HEARD HERE BEHIND THE SCENES.

REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT IN PRIVATE FROM WHAT THEY SAY IN PUBLIC.

THAT TELLS YOU A LOT.

THEY ARE JUST, FRANKLY, COWARDS AND ARE UNWILLING TO STAND UP TO THE PRESIDENT UNTIL THE TRUTH.

IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE INTERNATIONALLY TO KNOW THAT IT'S NOT LIKE ALL OF THE SUDDEN AMERICA BELIEVES WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING AND AMERICA FULLY SUPPORTS DONALD TRUMP IN HIS ACTIONS.

NO.

EVEN IN CONGRESS A LOT OF REPUBLICANS TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT.

THEY ARE JUST TOO SCARED TO SAY IT BECAUSE GO IN THE MEANTIME, YOU'VE GOT THE PRESIDENT SUSPENDING MILITARY AID TO UKRAINE.

$1 BILLION WORTH.

YOU'VE GOT THE CIA DIRECTOR CONFIRMING REPORTS THAT THEY HAVE ALSO SUSPENDED INTELLIGENCE TO UKRAINE.

IT WAS SO VITAL DURING THE YEARS OF THIS WAR TO HAVE THAT INTELLIGENCE AS TO BATTLEFIELD INTELLIGENCE.

WHY ARE THEY DOING THIS?

>> LET ME JUST START BY SAYING, AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN ON THE GROUND SERVING IN THE INFANTRY, IN THE TRENCHES, IN THE MUD, IN MY CASE, IN IRAQ, I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT IT MUST BE LIKE FOR ONE OF THESE FRONT-LINE TROOPS SUDDENLY HEARING THAT THEIR INTELLIGENCE HAS BEEN CUT OFF.

INTELLIGENCE THAT THEY RELIED ON FOR TWO YEARS.

THE REALITY IS THAT THE FIGHT IN UKRAINE HAS GONE SO WELL, LARGELY BECAUSE OF AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE.

IN FACT, I CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT THAT AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE IS EVEN MORE IMPORTANT TO THIS FIGHT THEN AMERICAN ARMS.

THEY CAN ARMS FROM A LOT OF PLACES, IT IS THE AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE THAT'S SO IMPORTANT.

PEOPLE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND JUST HOW DEVASTATING THIS IS TO UKRAINE.

IN THE ONLY ANSWER THAT WE GET FROM THE ADMINISTRATION IS SOMEHOW THIS IS DONALD TRUMP TRYING TO PUT THE SCREWS TO ZELENSKYY.

TRYING TO PUT THE SCREWS TO AN ALLY.

AND L.A.

HE JUST SHAMED IN FRONT OF THE INTERNATIONAL PRESS.

THERE IS NO GOOD REASON WHY.

I CAN'T STAND HERE AND GIVE YOU AN HONEST ANSWER FOR WHY TRUMP IS DOING THIS, OTHER THAN JUST TO SIMPLY STATE THE OBVIOUS, WHICH IS THAT HE SEEMS TO HAVE TAKEN SIDES IN THIS WAR AND DONALD TRUMP, AGAIN, NOT EVERY AMERICAN DONALD TRUMP HAS TAKEN THE SIDE OF VLADIMIR PUTIN.>> I WONDER IF ANYBODY IN CONGRESS, I'VE TRIED TO FIGURE IT OUT FROM THE UKRAINIANS, FROM THE ADMINISTRATION, NOW I'M ASKING YOU, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE SUBSTANCE OF WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYS ARE GOOD AND CONSTRUCTIVE, YOU KNOW, CONVERSATIONS WITH PUTIN AND THE RUSSIANS?

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS CONTAINED IN THAT?>> I CAN'T, I CAN'T READ THE MIND OF DONALD TRUMP.

BUT I THINK THAT'S IF YOU STEP BACK AND TRY TO LOOK STRATEGICALLY AT WHAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS DOING, THEY VERY MUCH VIEW THE WORLD, IN TERMS OF SPHERES OF INFLUENCE.

THEY DON'T WANT AMERICA TO PERPETUATE THIS -- TO HELP KEEP WORLD ORDER.

THEY WANT AMERICA TO RETREAT JUST TO OUR PART OF THE ROLE.

THAT'S WHY HE TALKS ABOUT RENEWING THE MONROE DOCTRINE.

AND HE IS SO FOCUSED ON RENAMING THE GULF OF MEXICO TO THE GULF OF AMERICA.

THAT ONLY MATTERS IF YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT YOUR BACKYARD.

HE SEEMS PERFECTLY WILLING TO CEDE EUROPE TO THE EUROPEANS AND TO THE RUSSIANS.

OBVIOUS THE, THE RUSSIANS ARE THE BIGGEST DOT ON THE BLOCK THERE.

HE SEEMS PERFECTLY WILLING TO CEDE ASIA TO THE CHINESE.

SO, THIS IS A TOTAL CHANGE OF AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY.

IT'S NOT DRIVEN BY ANY CONSENSUS.

IT'S DRIVEN REALLY BY ONE OR TWO MEN, DONALD TRUMP AND I THINK ELON MUSK, THE PRESIDENTIAL SIDEKICK AND ADVISER IN CHIEF, SEEMS TO SHARE THIS VIEW.

THAT'S KIND OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.

HE WANTS TO HAVE A BIG WITH VLADIMIR PUTIN TO SAY, HEY, WE CAN BE FRIENDS NOW BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO BE CONTROL OF THAT PART OF THE WORLD AND WE ARE JUST GOING TO FOCUS ON OUR OWN BACKYARD.>> AGAIN, JUST A COUPLE OF LAST QUESTIONS.

WHY DO YOU THINK THEY COME ACTUALLY THIS IS IT A LOT OF VANS AS WELL, THE VICE PRESIDENT, THEY ARE GAS LIGHTING UKRAINE.

BASICALLY SAYING ZELENSKYY WANTS TO CONTINUE THE WAR.

WHERE HE DOESN'T.

AS HE SAID, WE WANT PEACE, BUT NOT AT ANY COST.

WE NEED SECURITY GUARANTEES A RECENT ARTICLE IN THE ATLANTIC BY GRAHAM WOOD SINCE LAST YEAR RUSSIA MADE SLOW PROGRESS TENS OF THOUSANDS, POSSIBLY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF RUSSIAN SOLDIERS WERE KILLED OR WOUNDED.

IN YOU -- AND EXTEND FOR UKRAINIAN TERRITORY SLIGHTLY LARGER THAN THE SIZE OF YOU RHODE ISLAND.

THAT, THOSE ARE THE FACTS ON THE GROUND PURKETT, THE PRESIDENT SAYS ZELENSKYY HAS NO CAUSE, HE'S LOSING HIS COUNTRY.

OBVIOUSLY, IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH WITHOUT AMERICAN SUPPORT AGAIN, AGAIN, THEY ARE DOING THAT AND THEY ARE DISSING THE EUROPEANS.

YOU SAW WHAT FANS DIDN'T.

THE PRIME MINISTER OF BRITAIN TODAY PAYING TRIBUTE TO ACTUALLY MORE THAN 600 BRITS WHO HAD BEEN KILLED FIGHTING ALONGSIDE AMERICA IN IRAQ IN 2003.

>> TRUMP IS SELLING HIM OUT.

THERE IS NOT A BETTER ANSWER TO THIS.

I WISH I COULD SEND HER AS A PROUD AMERICAN AND TELL YOU THAT THERE'S A RHYME OR REASON TO WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS DOING.

TELL YOU THAT EVEN THOUGH I DON'T AGREE WITH HIM, HE'S FROM A DIFFERENT POLITICAL PARTY, I DIDN'T VOTE FOR HIM, WE CAN BE UNITED AND WHAT WE ARE DOING WITH UKRAINE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF REPUBLICANS WHO STOOD SHOULDER TO SHOULDER WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN IN SUPPORTING UKRAINE POLICY.

EVERY TIME WE HAD A UKRAINE BILL COME THROUGH THE CONGRESS IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS THE MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS, ALMOST ALL DEMOCRATS, BUT ALSO A MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS, SUPPORTED UKRAINE AID WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW IS, LET ME BE BLUNT WITH YOU, DONALD TRUMP IS ACTING LIKE A PUPPET FOR VLADIMIR PUTIN.

HE IS A PUPPET.

HE IS A PUPPET FOR THIS BRUTAL DICTATOR.

VANCE IS PLAYING RIGHT ALONG.

I CAN'T TELL IF VANCE IS MORE PUPPET FOR PUTIN OR JUST A PUPPET FOR DONALD TRUMP.

THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

IT'S UNBELIEVABLY DEVASTATING TO THE WORLD ORDER.

IT'S VERY DANGEROUS FOR OUR NATIONAL SECURITY IN AMERICA.

OUR ALLIES THINK THEY CAN'T TRUST US ALL AROUND THE WORLD, NOT JUST IN EUROPE.

OUR ADVERSARIES SEE A HUGE OPENING TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF US, BECAUSE WE ARE APPARENTLY JUST GOING TO LET THEM WALK ALL OVER US AND OUR ALLIES.

THIS IS VERY, VERY DANGEROUS FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

IT'S VERY DANGEROUS FOR OUR ALLIES.

IT'S EMPOWERING DICTATORS.

AND A LOT OF AMERICANS, INCLUDING THE MAJORITY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, SWEETLY DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT HERE.>> WE WISH, HONESTLY, WE KEEP TRYING TO ENGAGE WITH THE ADMINISTRATION.

IT HAS PROVEN IMPOSSIBLE SO FAR.

WE'RE HOPING WE CAN IN THE FUTURE.

LET'S JUST GET TO THE OGE AND THE DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE.

WASHINGTON POST AND FABRICE IS 49% OF RESPONDENTS DISAGREE WITH MUSK AND WHAT DOSE IS DOING, THE WHOLE CHAINSAW FIRINGS IN PANDEMONIUM CRATED AMONGST FEDERAL WORKERS, ET CETERA.

49 DO NOT.

IN YOUR NARRATIVE, IF THE PRESIDENT IS STRUGGLING SO BADLY OR HOWEVER YOU SEE IT, WHY ARE THE DEMOCRATS ALSO SEEM TO BE STRUGGLING IN HOW TO RESPOND?

LET ME FIRST PLAY A LITTLE BIT FROM ELISSA SLOTKIN, WHO GIVE THE FORMER DEMOCRATIC RESPONSE LAST NIGHT.

SCHOOL, THE PRESIDENT TALK TO BIG GAME ON THE ECONOMY.

WHAT AT THE WAS IMPORTANT TO READ THE FINE PRINT.

SO, DO HIS PLANS ACTUALLY HELP AMERICANS GET AHEAD?

NOT EVEN CLOSE.

PRESIDENT TRUMP IS TRYING TO DELIVER AN UNPRECEDENTED GIVEAWAY TO HIS BILLIONAIRE FRIENDS.

HE'S ON THE HUNT TO FIND TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO PASS ALONG TO THE WEALTHIEST IN AMERICA.

AND TO DO THAT HE IS GOING TO MAKE YOU PAY IN EVERY PART OF YOUR LIFE.

>> IT'S PRETTY ROBUST, BUT IN GENERAL, AS YOU KNOW, THE VIEW OF THE DEMOCRATS IS THAT YOU ARE SORT OF GOB SMACKED AND YOU DON'T QUITE KNOW WHAT TO DO.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT PUNCHING THEM, I'M TALKING ABOUT POLICY AND TRYING TO REVERSE ALL OF THESE THINGS THAT YOU THINK ARE SO NEGATIVE.

>> I THINK IT'S TWO THINGS THE DEMOCRATS NEED TO DO.

I'M CERTAINLY DOING WHAT I CAN DO THEM.

WHAT IS STANDING UP TO TRUMP.

I HAVE NOT BEEN AFRAID TO CALL HIM OUT ON WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS DOING LONG.

THE SECOND THING IS THAT WE REALLY DO NEED TO WORK TREVOR LOOK AT OURSELVES IN THE MIRROR AS DEMOCRATS AND ASKED THE QUESTION, HOW IS IT THAT WE HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS?

WE JUST GOT WIPED OUT IN AN ELECTION THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE EASIEST ELECTION IN OUR HISTORY.

WE HAVE NEVER HAD TO RUN AGAINST AN INDICTED CRIMINAL BEFORE.

A CONVICTED FELON.

THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN SO EASY FOR DEMOCRATS, YET WE LOST ACROSS THE BOARD.

WE NEED TO BE, MAKE SOME SERIOUS REFORMS TO OUR OWN PARTY.

I HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT HOW WE HAVE BECOME A PARTY OF PREACHERS WE TALK DOWN TO PEOPLE.

WE SEE IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THAT YOU ARE NOT ONLY WRONG, YOU'RE A BAD PERSON.

WE NEED TO LIFT UP THE VOICES OF AMERICANS, MEET THEM WHERE THEY ARE AND BRING THEM ALONG, WIDEN OUR TENT TO BRING IN DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW RATHER THAN BE BEHOLDEN TO SOME LIBERAL ORTHODOX.

WE NEED TO HAVE PLANS TO ACTUALLY FIX SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THE REPUBLICANS CORRECTLY IDENTIFY AS PROBLEMS, IT'S JUST THAT THEIR SOLUTIONS AREN'T HELPFUL.

IS GOVERNMENT REFORM SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD DO?

ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK YOU WOULD BE HARD- PRESSED TO FIND ANY AMERICAN WHO BELIEVES THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS EFFICIENT FOR THE PROBLEM IS THAT WHAT ELON MUSK IS DOING IS NOT MAKING GOVERNMENT MORE EFFICIENT, HE'S MAKING IT NONEXISTENT.

BUT DEMOCRATS HAVE TO HAVE A PLAN AND RESPONSE.

WE SHOULDN'T JUST SIT BACK AND WATCH REPUBLICANS RUIN EVERYTHING.

WE SHOULD HAVE A PLAN TO REFORM GOVERNMENT OURSELVES.

CANDIDLY, WE HAVEN'T HAD THAT.

WE ALSO NEED HAVE PLANS TO ADDRESS IMMIGRATION.

ANOTHER IS TO WE JUST DENIED FOR TOO LONG.

WE NEED TO DO SOME SERIOUS REFORM EFFORTS AT THE SAME TIME AS WE ARE STANDING UP TO TRUMP IS ALL RIGHT, CONGRESS MOULTON, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR JOINING US.>>> SO, AS THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION LAUNCHES THIS ONSLAUGHT OF SWEEPING CHANGE IT'S NOT JUST THE AMOUNT OF NEWS TO REPORT, BUT JOURNALISTS ARE INCREASINGLY FINDING THEMSELVES UNDER THREAT.

THE WHITE HOUSE IS EXERCISING MORE CONTROL OVER WHICH MEDIA OUTLETS COVER THE PRESIDENT AND MAJOR NETWORKS WHO HAVE RACED TO RESET RELATIONS.

AND OTHER WASHINGTON POST BILLIONAIRE OWNER JEFF BEZOS FORCED AN EDITORIAL SHIFT, ONLY PUBLISHING OPINIONS SUPPORTIVE OF, QUOTE, PERSONAL LIBERTIES AND FREE MARKETS.

MARTY BARON BECAME EXECUTIVE EDITOR AT THE WASHINGTON POST JUST MONTHS BEFORE BEZOS PURCHASED IT IN 2019.

HE'S JOINING ME NOW.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM, MARTY.

WE HAVE TALKED A LOT ABOUT ALL THE CHALLENGES, PRESS FREEDOM, NOT JUST UNDER THIS ADMINISTRATION, BUT IN GENERAL.

WHERE ARE YOU RIGHT NOW?

YOU JUST ARE CONGRESSMAN MOULTON SAYING THAT EVEN THOSE, POTENTIALLY EVEN REPUBLICANS WHO DISAGREE WITH CERTAIN POLICIES, ARE NOT STANDING UP.

AS THEY ARE AFRAID PEOPLE ARE AFRAID.

HOW DO YOU VIEW THE POSITION THAT THE PRESS IN AMERICA IS IN RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, I THINK WE FACE UNPRECEDENTED CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE NEVER FACED IN MY LIFETIME.

THAT'S FOR SURE.

WE HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO IS WORKING WITH ENORMOUS DETERMINATION TO CONTINUE TO UNDERMINE THE PUBLIC CONFIDENCE IN THE PRESS AND TO GO BEYOND THAT.

DIRECTLY UNDERMINED THE ECONOMIC SUSTAINABILITY OF THE PRESS THAT SAID, I THINK THAT A GOOD PORTION OF THE PRESS IS DOING A REALLY GOOD JOB.

PEOPLE REPORTING VERY AGGRESSIVELY ON WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS ADMINISTRATION ARE TELLING THE PUBLIC WHAT IT NEEDS AND DESERVES TO KNOW.

BEHIND THE CURTAIN, BENEATH THE SURFACE, ALL OF THAT.

INCLUDING, I SHOULD SAY, THE WASHINGTON POST.

WHICH DESPITE WHAT HAS HAPPENED THERE, THE NEWS DEPARTMENT IS PRODUCING REGULATORY STORIES DAY AFTER DAY WORKING WITH ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF ENERGY.

I TOTALLY APPLAUD THAT.>> LET'S STAY WITH THE WASHINGTON POST FOR A MOMENT.

IT IS LIKE A POSTER CHILD OF SOME OF AND THE NEW CONTROLS THAT ARE BEING EXECUTED.

CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU MAKE OF JUST TRAP UP JEFF BEZOS'S DIRECTIVE ABOUT THE OPINION PAGE.

THAT ONLY OPINIONS ON FREE- MARKET AND FREETHINKING, I'M PARAPHRASING, WITH NO OPPOSING VIEWS MUST BE ON THAT PAGE?

WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN IN REAL LIFE?

>> I'M NOT SURE WHAT IT MEANS.

I HAVE NO IDEA WHEN HE SAID JUST PERSONAL LIBERTIES, NOT SURE OF A SINGLE COMMUNIST PREFERENCE COLONISTS AT THE WASHINGTON POST THAT IS OPPOSED TO PERSONAL LIBERTIES.

APPARENTLY, HE THINKS SO.

HE'S ONLY SUGGESTING THAT THERE HAVE BEEN OPINIONS ON THOSE PAGES AND IN THAT SECTION THAT HAVE NOT BEEN IN SUPPORT OF PERSONAL LIBERTIES.

AS TO FREE MARKETS, WELL, I THINK HE IS FUNDAMENTALLY A LIBERTARIAN WHEN IT COMES TO MARKETS.

WHAT THE QUESTION IS, ARE THERE NOT GOING TO BE ANY OPINIONS PUBLISHED IN THE OPINIONS SECTION OF THE WASHINGTON POST THAT CALL FOR ANY SORT OF REGULATION X REGULATION OF THE ENVIRONMENT, REGULATION OF TECH PLATFORMS?

REGULATIONS ON CIVIL RIGHTS?

NO REGULATION WHATSOEVER?

WHAT IS HE REFERRING TO?

HE HAS NOT ACTUALLY EXPLAINED THAT THEY HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY OPAQUE ABOUT WHAT THIS ACTUALLY MEANS.

>> HAVE YOU SEEN IT?

WHAT'S THE EVIDENCE IN THE OPINION PAGE OR HAS IT NOT STARTED YET?

>> IT HAS NOT BEEN STARTED YET, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL.

IN FACT, SO MANY OF THE COLUMNS YESTERDAY WERE LAST NIGHT AND TODAY IN REACTION TO THE PRESIDENTS SPEECH HAVE BEEN SHARPLY CRITICAL.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT'S GOING TO BE, HOW THAT'S GOING TO UNFOLD.

IT WAS ONLY JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO THAT THE EDITOR OF THE EDITORIAL PAGE, DAVID SHIPLEY, RESIGNED, BECAUSE HE COULD NOT ACCEPT THE DICTATE OF JEFF BEZOS, WITH REGARD TO THE OPINION PAGES I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETIME BEFORE WE SEE WHAT THIS ALL MEANS.'S.

OBVIOUSLY, IN HIS FIRST TERM TRUMP WAS VERY CRITICAL OF THE MEDIA .

HE HE CALLED THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA THE FAKE NEWS, ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE A LOT.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

HE EVEN TELEGRAPHED IT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRUCK, I'M YOUR RETRIBUTION.

AND THIS SEEMS TO BE PLAYING OUT IN THE PRESS, IN OUR GROUP AS WELL.

YOU HAVE SEEN THE AP KICKED OUT FOR NOT USING, I DON'T KNOW, WHAT CAN I SAY, A NEW TERM FOR A HISTORICALLY NAMED GULF OF MEXICO.

THE WHITE HOUSE NOW SELECTS A POOL OF REPORTERS INSTEAD OF THE WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENTS ASSOCIATION.

LEAVE THE STATE TO PERMIT HAS ORDERED EMPLOYEES TO CANCEL SUBSCRIPTIONS TO THINGS LIKE THE NEW YORK TIMES, POLITICO, BLOOMBERG AND THE AP.

HEADSET, THE DEFENSE SECRETARY HAS ANNOUNCED FOR LONG-STANDING MEMBERS OF THE PRESS CORPS ARE LOSING THEIR OFFICES.

THAT'S JUST A SMALL LOOK.

HOW SHOULD THE PRESS REACT?

WHAT ARE OUR OPTIONS?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT WE OUGHT TO STICK TOGETHER.

ALL FOR ONE, ONE FOR ALL.

I THINK THAT THE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE COVERING THE WHITE HOUSE SHOULD ESSENTIALLY SHARE ALL THEIR CONTENT, ALL OF THEIR MATERIAL, ALL THERE VIDEO, ALL THERE NOTES, ALL THEIR PHOTOGRAPHS EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO EVERYTHING, SO THAT IF SOMEBODY IS NOT THERE THEY GET ACCESS TO EVERYBODY ELSE' IS WORK ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

EVERYTHING THAT THEY HAVE.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY WE HAVE BEEN THREATENED WITH MORE LAWSUITS THAN BEFORE.

TRUMP HIMSELF, OF COURSE, IS DOING, HAS SUED ABC.

AND REACHED A SETTLEMENT WITH SOME PRESSURE.

ON ABC, OBVIOUSLY, ON DISNEY, THE PARENTS OF ABC.

THERE ARE SETTLEMENT NEGOTIATIONS IN REGARD TO HIS PRIVATE LITIGATION AGAINST CBS.

WITH THE SUGGESTION THAT PARAMOUNT, THE PARENT COMPANY OF CBS, MAY NOT BE ABLE TO EXECUTE A MERGER WITH SKY DANCE, AS IT WISHES TO.

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A FUND, ESSENTIALLY, A LEGAL FUND, REALLY THAT SUPPORTS VARIOUS MEDIA OUTLETS WHEN THERE IS A MAJOR CASE, A CASE OF MAJOR PRINCIPLE.

>> I THINK THAT'S REALLY INTERESTING TO SORT OF FIGURE OUT A GROUP WAY OF DEFENDING OURSELVES.

BUT ALSO, ONE FOR ALL AND ALL FOR ONE.

IS LIKE AN ARTICLE FIVE, AN ATTACK ON ONE IS AN ATTACK ON ALL.

AND EACH OF US TRY TO DEFEND THE OTHER FOUR TO SAY, SHARE OUR INFORMATION.

WE DID THAT ON THE GROUND AND SOME OF THE MOST DANGEROUS WARS, LIKE IN SARAJEVO.

WE PULLED ALL OF OUR INFO AND ALL OUR VIDEO.

IT ACTUALLY WORKED UNDER THAT LIFE-THREATENING CIRCUMSTANCE IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.

I WOULD LOVE THIS QUOTE AND I WOULD LOVE TO BRING IT OUT.

WHICH WAS WRITTEN BY THE GREAT THOMAS JEFFERSON, 1787 IN A LETTER TO HIS FRIEND TALKING ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF A FREE PRESS AND THE IMPORTANCE TO DEMOCRACY OF MAINTAINING AN INFORMED CITIZENRY.

HE SAYS, WERE IT LEFT TO ME TO DECIDE WHETHER WE SHOULD HAVE A GOVERNMENT WITHOUT NEWSPAPERS OR NEWSPAPERS WITHOUT A GOVERNMENT, I SHOULD NOT HESITATE A MOMENT TO PREFER THE LATTER.

I THINK WE KNOW WHICH WAY TRUMP IS HIM ABOUT MY QUESTION IS, WHAT HAPPENS IF THE FORMER IS THE DOMINANT?

>> LOOK, I MEAN, I THINK YOU MOVE TOWARD AUTOCRACY.

THAT'S WHAT IS HAPPENING, THAT IS THE A LOT OF STEPS THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS TAKEN TODAY ARE THE KINDS OF STEPS WE HAVE SEEN IN GOVERNMENTS THAT HAVE MOVED IN AN AUTHORITARIAN DIRECTION.

EXACTLY THE SAME SORTS OF STEPS.

I THINK WE NEED TO BE WORRIED ABOUT THAT WE NEED TO SEE THE DIRECTION THAT WE ARE GOING IN THE DIRECTION IS ENORMOUSLY CONCERNING.

OF COURSE, LOOK, THOMAS JEFFERSON, ULTIMATELY, DIDN'T LIKE THE PRESS EITHER.

BECAUSE THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF THINGS, THAT INEVITABLY THE PRESS IS GOING TO WRITE THINGS THAT A PRESIDENT DOESN'T LIKE.

THE FOUNDERS OF THIS COUNTRY KNEW THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO HAVE A FREE AND INDEPENDENT PRESS THAT'S WHY THEY PROVIDED FOR IT IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION.

THAT'S WHY JAMES MADISON, WHO WAS A PRINCIPAL AUTHOR, TALKED ABOUT THE NEED FOR FREELY EXAMINING PUBLIC CHARACTERS AND MEASURES.

EXAMINING.

EXAMINING IS THE WORD.

LOOK BEHIND THE CURTAIN.

LOOK BENEATH THE SURFACE.

FIND OUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE GOVERNMENT.

TELL THE PUBLIC WHAT IT NEEDS AND DESERVES TO KNOW IN ORDER FOR THEM TO GOVERN THEMSELVES.

THEY MAKE THE ULTIMATE DECISION.

ULTIMATELY, YOU NEED A PRESS THAT DOES THAT.

AND THE FUNCTIONS INDEPENDENTLY.

AND TRUMP IS WORKING IN A VERY DETERMINED WAY TO TRY AND UNDERMINED THE PRESS IN EVERY CONCEIVABLE WAY THAT HE CAN.

AND WE ARE ONLY, NOT THAT MANY WEEKS INTO THIS ADMINISTRATION.

YOU GOT ABOUT FOUR MORE YEARS TO GO.

AND HE'S GOING TO CONTINUE DOING THAT.

THAT IS A REAL RISK.

THERE ARE OTHER MEASURES THEY ARE TAKING TOO.

ONE OF THEM IS TO TRY THE RECOMMENDATIONS BY THE HEAD OF THE FCC TO CONGRESS THAT PERHAPS THEY SHOULD CUT OFF ALL FUNDING TO PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

THAT WOULD BE NPR AND PBS HE'S ALSO LAUNCHED INVESTIGATIONS OF NPR AND PBS FOR SPONSORSHIPS THAT THEY HAVE.

CLAIMING THAT VIOLATES, THAT MAY VIOLATE THE FEDERAL LAW AGAINST COMMERCIALS ON PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

IF THEY WERE TO LOSE THAT FUNDING AND USE, LOSE GOVERNMENT FUNDING, YOU CAN ONLY IMAGINE THEY WOULD BE HIGHLY UNLIKELY TO SURVIVE.

AT THE SAME TIME, THE HEAD OF THE FCC IS THREATENING THE LICENSES OF STATIONS THAT ARE AFFILIATED WITH ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, ODDLY ENOUGH WORK, OBVIOUSLY ENOUGH, IS EXCLUDED FROM THOSE THREATS.

WE ARE MOVING IN A VERY CONCERNING DIRECTION.

I'M VERY WORRIED ABOUT HOW MUCH FURTHER WE ARE GOING TO GO.

SPEAK ONE OF THE THINGS PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE FIRST AMENDMENT, IT DOESN'T JUST EMPOWER US TO HAVE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION AND SPEECH, BUT THEY SAY IT ALSO PUTS THE RESPONSIBILITY ON THE ONUS OF THE PRESS TO ALSO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR PLATFORMS CAN OPERATE UNDER THAT FIRST AMENDMENT PRIVILEGE AND LAW.

TELL ME ABOUT, YOU HAD A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE WITH BEZOS WHEN HE FIRST ARRIVED DIDN'T YOU?

YOU WENT TO THE WHITE HOUSE WITH HIM.

HE SEEMED TO BE COMMITTED TO RIGOROUS REPORTING, WHICH I KNOW IS STILL GOING ON AT THE WASHINGTON POST.

THAT THERE WAS NONE OF THIS BUSINESS ABOUT CHANGING THE OPINION PAGES OR THIS LAST- MINUTE DECISION NOT TO DO THE TRADITIONAL THING AND ENDORSE A CANDIDATE WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE AT THAT TIME?

HOW HAVE THINGS CHANGED WITH BEZOS AT THE POST?

>> MIKE'S PARENTS WAS TERRIFIC.

HE SUPPORTED ME.

HE SUPPORTED THE INDEPENDENCE OF OUR NEWSROOM.

HE LAVISHED PRAISE ON THE COVERAGE OF THE WASHINGTON POST AND ON MY LEADERSHIP OF THE NEWSROOM.

HE LAVISHED PRAISE ON MY COLLEAGUE, WHO WAS LEADING THE EDITORIAL PAGES AT THE TIME.

SAID THEY WERE KILLING IT USING THE SLANG OF UNRESERVED APPROVAL.

THAT'S THE WAY IT WAS FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME.

MORE RECENTLY WE HAVE SEEN HIM MAKING GESTURES AND OVERTURES TO TRUMP TO SEEMINGLY TRY TO REPAIR THE RELATIONSHIP WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP.

A VARIETY OF MEASURES.

A DONATION TO THE INAUGURATION, GUSHING, OVERLY GUSHING CONGRATULATIONS ON HIS VICTORY IN NOVEMBER.

AMAZON, PURCHASING THE RIGHTS TO A SO-CALLED DOCUMENTARY ABOUT MELANIA TRUMP .

PAYING $49 FOR THAT, WHICH WAS THREE TIMES WHAT THE NEXT HIGHEST BIDDER OFFERED.

APPEARING ON THE DAIS DURING THE INAUGURATION.

YOU KNOW, WHEN BEZOS MADE THE DECISION NOT TO, THAT WASHINGTON POST SHOULD NOT PUBLISH AN ENDORSEMENT FOR PRESIDENT, SOMETHING THAT WAS ANNOUNCED ONLY 11 DAYS BEFORE THE ELECTION LAST NOVEMBER, HE SAID THAT ALL OF US NEED TO WORK HARDER TO ESTABLISH OUR CREDIBILITY.

APPEARING ON THAT DAIS DID NOT LOOK TO ME LIKE WORKING HARDER TO ESTABLISH THE CREDIBILITY OF THE WASHINGTON POST NOR DID IT SEND A SIGNAL OF INDEPENDENCE IT SENT A SIGNAL OF DEPENDENCE, DEPENDENCE ON THE GOOD GRACES OF DONALD TRUMP.

I JUST WANT TO GO, TAKE A LAST QUESTION, BECAUSE IT IS ALL ABOUT THE OWNERS AND WHAT THEY'RE PREPARED TO DO TO DEFEND THEIR PRESS PLATFORMS WE HAVE TALK ABOUT BEZOS.

YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE OTHERS WHO ARE UNDER THREAT OF COURSE, AT THE L.A. TIMES THEIR BILLIONAIRE OWNER HAS BEEN INTERVENING AS WELL.

WE HAVE SEEN HOW MUSK AND ZUCKERBERG HAVE REMOVED ALL FACT CHECKING AND STUFF FROM THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS I JUST WANT TO REVIEW WITH THE FORMER NEAR TIMES JOURNALIST ANDREW ROSENTHAL WROTE FOR THE COLUMBIA JOURNALISM REVIEW.

HE SAID, I WAS EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR AT THE NEW YORK TIMES FOR ABOUT NINE YEARS.

MY BOSS WAS A RICH MAN, ARTHUR SALISBURY, A JUNIOR WHO FELT IT WAS HIS RIGHT TO TAKE A PART IN THE OPINION COVERAGE.

WE HAD DEBATES AND WE HAD ARGUMENTS.

SOME OF THEM LONG QUITE ENERGETIC SOME I WON AND SOME I LOST, BUT NEVER IN MY WILDEST IMAGINATION DID I BELIEVE ARTHUR WOULD EVER WRAP HIMSELF IN THE AMERICAN FLAG AND ORDER US TO PRODUCE AN ENTIRELY ONE- SIDED OPINION REPORT.

HE NEVER DID.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE QUESTION OUT OF THAT IS, BUT IT SEEMS ALSO THESE BILLIONAIRES NEED THEIR PLATFORMS AS WELL, FOR SOME REASON.

>> WELL, I THINK, CHRISTIANE, THAT'S WHAT'S SO CONCERNED ABOUT THIS LATEST MANEUVER BY JEFF BEZOS.

LOOK, HE CAN DECIDE WHAT THE EDITORIALS SHOULD SAY.

HE IS THE OWNER OF THE NEWSPAPER.

IF HE WANTS THE EDITORIALS TO REFLECT HIS OWN POLITICAL POINT OF VIEW, WELL, THAT'S HIS PREROGATIVE, ABSOLUTELY.

ABOUT TO SAY NO OTHER OPINIONS ARE PERMITTED AND THAT THEY ARE NOT WELCOME IN THIS TERRITORY THAT THE EDITORIAL TERRITORY THAT HE CONTROLS?

FIRST OF ALL, IT'S AGAINST THE HERITAGE AND HISTORY OF THE WASHINGTON POST.

WHICH IS ALWAYS WELCOME A WIDE VARIETY OF OPINIONS OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, ACTUALLY, BEYOND THAT THEY HAVE INCREASED THE NUMBER OF CONSERVATIVE VOICES IN THAT SECTION AND ON THOSE PAGES.

YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE IDEA OF THAT WAS TO CELEBRATE AND HONOR FREE EXPRESSION.

THAT IS, BEZOS TALKS ABOUT PERSONAL LIBERTIES.

THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL PERSONAL LIBERTY THAT AMERICANS HAVE IS THE RIGHT TO FREE EXPRESSION.

AND NEWSPAPERS HAVE TRADITIONALLY HONOR THAT BY ALLOWING A WIDE RANGE OF ABUSE IN THEIR OPINIONS SECTION.

NOW TO SAY, NO, WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A WIDE RANGE OF VIEWS, YOU WILL FIND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS ELSEWHERE.

WE WILL HAVE ONLY ESSENTIALLY ONE POINT OF VIEW, THE VIEW THAT IS LINED WITH MY OWN PERSONAL IDEOLOGY DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY THAT THE ONLY THING YOU ARE GOING TO SEE.

MY VIEW IS THAT, THAT IS, HERE YOU HAVE A NEWSPAPER THAT PORTRAYS ITSELF AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN THE DEFENDER OF DEMOCRACY.

THAT IS A MANEUVER THAT IS HIGHLY UNDEMOCRATIC.

IS AN IT OR PEOPLE THAT USED TO SAY DEMOCRACY DIES IN THE DARK?

>> THEY STILL SAY THAT.

>> THEY STILL DO.

OKAY.

THAT'S STILL A COMMITMENT.

MARTY BARON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN VOCAL ABOUT FREEDOM OF SPEECH, AS WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING.

THE RECENT STRING OF EVENTS CANCELLATIONS AT THE JIMMY CARTER PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY SUGGESTS OTHERWISE.

ONE OF THEM WAS FOR THE AWARD- WINNING JOURNALIST ELAINE WEISS, WHOSE NEW BOOK, SPELL FREEDOM, FOCUSES ON FOUR BRAVE ACTIVISTS WHO LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

OTHER EVENTS ON CLIMATE CHANGE AND HOMELESSNESS WERE ALSO PULLED FROM PROGRAMMING.

A MOVE WHICH WEISS BELIEVES IS A RESULT OF BUDGET CUTS AND NEW LEADERSHIP IN THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES.

SHE JOINS US MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS THE RELEVANCE OF HER LATEST WORK IN TODAY'S AMERICA.

ELAINE WEISS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> YOU HAVE WRITTEN A NUMBER OF BOOKS.

THEY ALL KIND OF HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON, WOULD YOU SAY WHAT IT IS?

>> WELL, I TRY TO EXPLORE THE UNTOLD STORIES IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

NOT TOTALLY UNKNOWN, BUT SOMETIMES NOT RECOGNIZED FOR HOW IMPORTANT OR HOW INSTRUMENTAL THAT PART OF OUR HISTORY WAS.

SO, YOU WROTE ABOUT WOMEN IN WORLD WAR I AND HOW WOMEN, AMERICAN WOMEN, WON THE VOTE.

AND ALLOW BLACK WOMEN AND BLACK MEN IN THE DEEP SOUTH REGAINED THEIR RIGHT TO VOTE.

I GUESS THE THREAT IS I DO LIKE TO WRITE ABOUT WOMEN IN HISTORY, BECAUSE I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN A BIT NEGLECTED.

AND I LIKE TO WRITE ABOUT HOW CHANGE HAPPENS THROUGH DEMOCRACY.>> LET'S JUST START WITH THE STORY OF WHERE THIS STORY STARTS.

IT STARTS WITH BROWN VIEWPORT EVENT, THAT FAMOUS SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT OUTLAWED SEGREGATION IN THE SCHOOLS.

WHY DO YOU START THERE?

I START ON THE DAY, MAY 17th, 1954, THAT THE BROWN DECISION IS ANNOUNCED.

BECAUSE IT'S CERTAINLY NOT THE BEGINNING OF THE STRUGGLE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS IN OUR COUNTRY.

THAT IT BECOMES A DOMINATING MOMENT WHEN IT REALIZED THAT FOR THE FIRST TIME THE AMERICAN, THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND IN AMERICA, HAS DECIDED THAT, INDEED, SEPARATE IS NOT EQUAL.

AND WHILE IT SPECIFICALLY TALKS ABOUT DESEGREGATING PUBLIC SCHOOLS, IT'S RECOGNIZED RIGHT AWAY THAT THIS IS THE OPENING FOR ATTACKING JIM CROW SEGREGATION ON ALL LEVELS.

IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT MOMENT.>> THE FOCUS OF THE BOOK IS SO-CALLED CITIZENSHIP SCHOOLS.

FIRST OF ALL, TELL US WHAT CITIZENSHIP SCHOOLS WERE AND WHY IN THE WAKE OF BROWN WERE THEY IMPORTANT?

CITIZENSHIP SCHOOLS WERE A VERY INNOVATIVE AND COURAGEOUS WAY OF TRYING TO GET ORDINARY, OFTEN POOR AND UNLETTERED, BLACK CITIZENS TO BE ABLE TO BE REGISTERED TO VOTE.

THE BROWN DECISION ONLY DEALT WITH DESEGREGATION.

IT DID NOT DEAL WITH VOTING RIGHTS.

WE WILL SEE FOR THE NEXT 15 YEARS THAT DESEGREGATION WAS VERY, VERY SLOW.

IT BECOMES OBVIOUS THAT NOTHING IS GOING TO REALLY HAPPEN UNTIL BLACK PEOPLE IN THE SOUTH CAN REGAIN THEIR RIGHT TO VOTE.

THE WAY THE CITIZENSHIP SCHOOLS BEGAN WAS TO TEACH LITERACY, TO TEACH PEOPLE WHO HAD NEVER BEEN ABLE TO HAVE AN EDUCATION, BECAUSE EDUCATION WAS A TOOL OF CONTROL IN THE SOUTH.

AND THE WHITE ESTABLISHMENT DID NOT WANT BLACK PEOPLE TO BE WELL EDUCATED.

SO, VERY FEW WERE ACTUALLY, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL AREAS, WERE ILLITERATE AND THEY COULDN'T PASS THE LITERACY TESTS, WHICH WERE REQUIRED OF BLACK PEOPLE TO REGISTER TO VOTE.

THIS TAUGHT THEM AT THE VERY BASIC LEVEL HOW TO HOLD A PENCIL.

HOW TO SIGN THEIR NAMES BY TRACING IT OVER AND OVER.

AND THEN LEARNING THEIR LETTERS, LEARNING TO SOUND OUT WORDS, LEARNING ARITHMETIC.

AND THIS WAS ALL DESIGNED TO GET THEM THROUGH THE VERY ONEROUS LITERACY TEST IT WAS MORE THAN THAT IT TAUGHT THEM TO BE CITIZENS.

IT TAUGHT THEM THE CONSTITUTION.

IT TAUGHT THEM WHAT THEIR RIGHTS REALLY WERE.

IT TAUGHT THEM THAT THEY WERE FIRST-CLASS CITIZENS AS MUCH AS ANY OTHER AMERICAN AND THEY DESERVED ALL THE PROTECTIONS AND PRIVILEGES OF CITIZENSHIP.

THIS ISN'T LIKE BRICK-AND- MORTAR SCHOOLS.

THESE ARE INFORMAL COMMUNITY CLASSES TAUGHT BY YOUR NEIGHBORS.

AND THEY TEACH THEIR NEIGHBORS IN THEIR KITCHENS, IN THEIR GARAGES, IN BEAUTY PARLORS AT NIGHT WITH THE CURTAINS CLOSED, BECAUSE IT WAS STILL DANGEROUS TO BE TEACHING LITERACY TO BLACK PEOPLE WITH THE INTENT OF HAVING THEM REGISTER TO VOTE.

THERE WAS DANGER.

>> SOME PEOPLE, I THINK SOME PEOPLE, AT LEAST ONE HOPES, SO PEOPLE KNOW IT WAS ILLEGAL IN MOST PLACES TO TEACH ENSLAVED PEOPLE HOW TO READ AND WRITE.

BUT AFTER THE CIVIL WAR, AFTER THE TIME WHEN SLAVERY WAS MORE OR LESS ABOLISHED, WHY IS IT THAT SO MANY BLACK CITIZENS REMAINED ILLITERATE?

WHY IS THAT?

>> BECAUSE, AGAIN, IT WAS A MATTER OF CONTROL.

OF COURSE, BLACK SCHOOLS IN THE SOUTH WERE SEGREGATED.

FOR EVERY DOLLAR SPENT ON EDUCATION OF A WHITE PERSON, JUST PENNIES WERE EXPENDED ON EDUCATING A BLACK STUDENT.

THE FACILITIES WERE DEPLORABLE.

THEY WERE SHACKS WITHOUT BLACKBOARD, OFTEN WITHOUT SEATS , WITH NO PLUMBING, WITH NO TOILET FACILITIES.

WITH CAST OFF DECADES-OLD TEXTBOOKS.

AND OFTEN IF YOU WERE IN A RURAL AREA PART OF THE ARRANGEMENT OF YOUR FAMILY A SHARECROPPER WERE THE CHILDREN WERE ALSO REQUIRED TO GO INTO THE FIELDS.

THEIR EDUCATION WAS VERY INTERRUPTED.

YOU WILL SEE THAT PEOPLE WILL HAVE MAYBE FIRST OR SECOND GRADE EDUCATION DECADES AGO.

THAT'S ABOUT IT.

SOME HAVE DONE.>> CYNTHIA CLARK IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO YOU FEATURE IN THE BOOK.

SHE MAY BE ONE OF THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT MANY PEOPLE WILL HAVE HEARD OF.

SHE WAS AND EDUCATOR.

HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

HOW WAS SHE ABLE TO GET ENOUGH EDUCATION FOR HER TO BE AN EDUCATOR?

I'M GOING TO ASK HOW SHE FITS INTO THE STORY OF THE CITIZENSHIP SCHOOLS.>> CLARK, BORN AND RAISED IN CHARLESTON, DAUGHTER OF A FORMER ENSLAVED FATHER, SHE GROWS UP QUITE POOR.

BUT OF THE FAMILY THAT REALLY VALUED EDUCATION.

SHE LOVED READING AND WRITING IN SCHOOL.

AND HER PARENTS WENT TO PAY THE TUITION TO SOME PRIVATE ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS.

AND THEN SHE IS ABLE TO GO TO THE AVERY INSTITUTE, WHICH IS THE PREMIER PRIVATE HIGH SCHOOL IN CHARLESTON.

WHICH HAD TRAINED MANY OF THE BLACK LEADERS IN THE CITY FOR DECADES.

AND SHE BECOMES A TEACHER AT AGE 18.

AND IS ABLE TO BE A TEACHER FOR THE NEXT 40 YEARS.

AND USES THAT EDUCATION IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

THAT'S HOW SHE IS ABLE, SHE CAN VOTE.

SHE JOINS THE NAACP WHEN SHE IS 18 OR 19 YEARS OLD.

SHE JOINS THE EXECUTIVE BOARDS OF THE NAACP IN HER CITIES.

AND SHE IS DEDICATED TO BREAKING DOWN THE WALLS OF JIM CROW SOCIETY.

AND SHE IS ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE EDUCATED AND REALIZE THAT THOSE WHO AREN'T ARE AT SUCH A DISADVANTAGE AND THEY CAN'T PARTICIPATE.

EITHER IN MODERN LIFE OR IN THE LIFE OF THEIR COUNTRY.>> IS TELL US ABOUT THE CITIZENSHIP SCHOOLS.

WHO STARTED THEM?

WHO IDEAS WAS THIS?

TELL US ABOUT HIM.>> IT WAS THE IDEA OF AESOP JENKINS, WHO IS THIS MARVELOUSLY CREATIVE MAN ON ONE OF THE ISLANDS OFF THE COAST OF CHARLESTON.

HE HAS A FOURTH GRADE EDUCATION, BUT HE HAS GONE BACK TO NIGHT SCHOOL.

AND HE IS A BUSINESSMAN.

HE IS WHAT WE MIGHT CALL A SOCIAL ENTREPRENEUR.

HE IS DOING GOOD.

AND HE HAS THIS IDEA THAT HIS NEIGHBORS ON THE ISLAND ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE NEGLECTED AND IS SUBJECTED TO THE POWER OF THE WHITE SOCIETY AND INJUSTICE OF COURSE, UNLESS THEY HAVE POLITICAL POWER.

HE HAS A BUSINESS RUNNING A BUS, A BUS BACK AND FORTH FROM JOHN'S ISLAND TO CHARLESTON EVERY DAY.

TAKING WORKERS WHO LIVED ON THE ISLAND AND OUR DOMESTICS OR FACTORY WORKERS IN TOWN.

ON THE BUS HE TRAINS THEM.

HE HAS THE CONSTITUTION TYPED UP BY HIS WIFE.

HE HAS OUT THESE SHEETS AND HE DRILLS THEM ONE ASPECT OF THE CONSTITUTION, SO THEY CAN ANSWER.

WHO NOT ONLY HAD TO READ, YOU HAD TO INTERPRET THE LEGAL ASPECTS OF THIS ARCANE LANGUAGE.

AND HE DRILLS THEM ON IT.

THAT HE ACCOMPANIES THEM TO THE REGISTRAR OFFICE TO SEE THAT THERE IS NO SHENANIGANS.

WHAT HE REALIZES HE NEEDS HELP ON THIS.

AND HE FINDS THAT HELP WITH CLARK, WHO HE ACTUALLY KNOWS, BECAUSE THEY BOTH LIVE IN CHARLESTON AND ACTIVE IN THE NAACP.

AND HE BRINGS THIS IDEA TO A PLACE IN TENNESSEE CALLED THE HIGHLANDER SCHOOL.

WHICH IS A SOCIAL JUSTICE TRAINING CENTER.

AND THERE THEY GET THE IDEA TO TAKE THIS SENSE OF TEACHING THE CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE, GETTING THEM THROUGH THE LITERACY TEST, BUT BROADENING IT TO BASIC LITERACY.

SO THEY CAN ACTUALLY READ MOST OF THEM WERE MEMORIZING THIS.

AND THEN IT'S THE FIRST CITIZENSHIP THAT IS ESTABLISHED BEHIND THE SHELVES OF A GROCERY STORE ON JOHNS ISLAND.

AND ITS IN A ROOM WHERE THERE IS NO WINDOWS.

THEY DON'T WANT WHITE PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT THEY ARE TEACHING BLACKS TO READ AND WRITE IN ORDER TO VOTE.

>> YOU ALSO TELL THEM THE BOOK ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES FOR OTHER PEOPLE WHEN THEY DID TRY TO VOTE.

TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT, IF YOU WOULD.

>> THERE WAS JUST A WHOLE SYSTEM OF SUPPRESSION OF THE BLACK VOTE NOT TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE WOULD CALL SUPPRESSION TODAY.

IT WAS VIOLENT IF YOU EVEN ATTEMPTED TO TRY TO REGISTER TO VOTE, BY THE TIME YOU RETURNED HOME THE REGISTRAR WOULD HAVE CALLED YOUR EMPLOYER AND YOU WILL BE FIRED.

FROM YOUR JOB.

WOULD HAVE CALLED YOUR LANDLORD OR THE MAN WHO OWNED THE PROPERTY WHERE YOU WERE A SHARECROPPER AND YOU WOULD BE EVICTED.

YOUR LAWNS WOULD BE COLD, YOUR TRUCK WOULD BE REPOSSESSED FOR THE PHARMACY WOULDN'T FILL THE PRESCRIPTION FOR YOUR SICK BABY.

NIGHT RIDERS WOULD COME AND SHOOT INTO YOUR HOME.

IN ONE TOWN IN EAST TENNESSEE THERE WAS AN ORGANIZED EFFORT TO GO REGISTER TO VOTE ALL OF THE BLACK FAMILIES ARE EVICTED, 200 PEOPLE LIVE IN A TENT TOWN FOR TWO YEARS.

SO, THE REPRESSION WAS VIOLENT AND CRUEL AND UBIQUITOUS.

>> THERE'S ANOTHER INTERESTING CHARACTER, MYLES HORTON.

WHO RUNS THE HIGHLANDER FOLK SCHOOL.

HE'S A REALLY INTERESTING CHARACTER.

HE'S WHITE.

HE'S NOT AFRICAN AMERICAN.

HE RUNS THE SCHOOL.

HE IS NOT BELOVED BY THE POWERS THAT BE, BECAUSE OF IT.

TELL US HIS STORY.

HE DOESN'T START OUT ACTUALLY AS A WAY TO EDUCATE BLACK FOLKS, PER SE.

>> RIGHT.

MYLES HORTON IS BORN AND BRED IN CUMBERLAND MOUNTAINS OF TENNESSEE.

GROWS UP POOR.

HIS FAMILY WERE SHARECROPPERS AND ALSO TEACHERS.

HE BEGINS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE POWER TO CHANGE WHITES IN APPALACHIA WHERE HE GROWS UP IS REALLY WITH THE PEOPLE.

YOU CAN'T RELY ON THE LAWS OR THE POWERS THAT BE TO CHANGE IT.

HE STUDIES THEOLOGY AND SOCIOLOGY AND GETS THE IDEA OF STARTING A SCHOOL.

IT'S NOT REALLY WHAT WE WOULD CALL A SCHOOL.

IT'S A TRAINING CENTER.

A PLACE WHERE FROM THE BEGINNING WAS INTEGRATED.

WHICH IS AGAINST THE LAWS OF TENNESSEE.

HE VERY PROBABLY SAID THE HIGHLANDER SCHOOL WAS THE ONLY PLACE IN THE SOUTH WHERE BLACKS AND WHITES COULD TNP TOGETHER.

THEY COULD LIVE TOGETHER, THEY ATE TOGETHER AT THE SAME TABLES.

ALL OF THIS TOTALLY ILLEGAL.

BY JIM CROW LAWS.

HE IS VERY PROUD.

HE CALLS HIMSELF A RADICAL HILLBILLY.

HE IS FOCUSED AT FIRST ON THE LABOR MOVEMENT.

IT BECOMES THE HIGHLANDER, BECOMES A TRAINING CENTER FOR UNION ORGANIZERS.

THEN HE REALIZES AROUND 1950 THAT RACE IS THE REAL DETERMINING FACTOR THAT IS KEEPING THE SOUTH BEHIND.

HE SAYS, WE'VE GOT TO TACKLE THIS BEFORE WE CAN IMPROVE ANYTHING.

SO, HE SHIFTS THE EMPHASIS OF THE TRAINING CENTER TO RACE RELATIONS.

>> IT'S A FASCINATING STORY THAT YOU TELL.

POINTING OUT HOW THEY ORGANIZED AND TAUGHT THEMSELVES AND TAUGHT THEIR NEIGHBORS, SO THAT THEY COULD NOT SUBVERT DEMOCRATIC SYSTEMS, BUT ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE IN THEM FULLY.

YOU WOULD THINK THAT WOULD BE AN INSPIRING STORY.

THAT PEOPLE WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING IN HEARING.

I UNDERSTAND THAT LAST MONTH YOU HAD A BOOK EVENT SCHEDULED AT THE JIMMY CARTER PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY IN ATLANTA, WHICH IS OVERSEEN BY THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES.

AND THIS EVENT WAS SUDDENLY CANCELED .

HE WHY?>> THEY SAID THE EVENT WAS CANCELED.

THEY EXPLAINED TO MY PUBLISHER THAT THERE WAS STAFFING DIFFICULTIES, BECAUSE THERE WERE, LIKE MOST FEDERAL EMPLOYEES, STAFFING HAS BEEN SLASHED BY THIS ADMINISTRATION.

THE THING THAT WAS CONCERNING WAS THAT, ALTHOUGH IT HAD BEEN APPROVED, IT WAS ALREADY UP ON THE WEBSITE AND WAS ANNOUNCED, MY EVENT IN MID-MARCH.

IT CLEARLY NEEDED TO BE REASSESSED BY THE NEW ADMINISTRATION.

AND THE PRESIDENT HAD FIRED THE ARCHIVIST OF THE UNITED STATES JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS BEFORE.

AND ALL THE TOP LEADERSHIP OF THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES, WHICH RUNS THE PRESIDENTIAL, IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARIES, HAD BEEN MUCH FORCED OUT.

THERE WAS A VERY NEW ADMINISTRATION AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES.

PROGRAMMING HAD TO BE REAPPROVED .

AND THERE WERE THREE EVENTS, BOOK EVENTS, AT THE CARTER LIBRARY IN MARCH THAT WERE CANCELED.

THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED BEFORE.

>> DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE OTHERS WERE?

>> YES ONE WAS A BOOK ABOUT HOMELESSNESS AND THE OTHER WAS A BOOK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

MINE IS ABOUT RACE AND VOTING RIGHTS.

>> DO YOU THINK IT'S RELATED TO THE CONTENT OF THE BOOK, BASICALLY?

I THINK THAT IS ILLOGICAL CONCLUSION.

BECAUSE THIS IS HAPPENING IN MANY GOVERNMENT AGENCIES RIGHT NOW UNDER THE NEW ADMINISTRATION.>> I CAN TELL YOU, IT SAYS THE PRESS OFFICE DIDN'T ANSWER DIRECTLY WHETHER IT HAD DISCUSSED THE EVENTS WITH THE CARTER LIBRARY, BUT IN THE STATEMENT IT SAID IT QUOTE, UNQUOTE, TRUST LEADERSHIP AT EACH PRESIDENTIAL EVERY TO MAKE PROGRAMMING DECISIONS.

IT SAYS PROGRAMS AND EVENTS MUST ALWAYS ADVANCE AND UPHOLDS THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES CORE MISSION TO OBSERVE THE RECORDS OF THE UNITED STATES AND MAKE THEM AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC ON THIS ISSUE.

THE PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARIES TO MAKE TRAVEL IS EMPOWERED TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS ON PROGRAMS.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN TO YOU?

>> IT WAS DISTURBING TO ME.

I WILL BE FINE.

THE BOOK TALK HAS BEEN RESCHEDULED AT ANOTHER LIBRARY IN ATLANTA.

I THINK THE OTHER AUTHORS ALSO WILL BE RESCHEDULED.

THIS IS SPEAKS TO A LARGER ISSUE WE ARE SEEING THAT WITH THE ADMINISTRATION TRYING TO ASSERT CONTROL OVER MANY OF OUR CULTURAL AND SCHOLARLY AND SCIENTIFIC ORGANIZATIONS.

AND I THINK THIS IS DISTURBING.

AND THERE IS AN EMPHASIS RIGHT NOW WITH THE ARTS ENDOWMENT IN THE HUMANITIES ENDOWMENT TO PROMOTE PATRIOTIC EDUCATION.

AND WHAT THEY WOULD CALL PATRIOTIC EXPRESSIONS OF AMERICAN HISTORY AND AMERICAN ARTS.

AND WHAT I WOULD SAY IS I THINK THE STORY OF THE CITIZENSHIP SCHOOLS AND THE INCREDIBLY BRAVE THOUSANDS OF BLACK AMERICANS WHO PARTICIPATED IN THESE AND TAUGHT THEM AND RAISED UP THEIR NEIGHBORS TO DEMAND THE RIGHTS AS AMERICAN CITIZENS IS THE MOST PATRIOTIC STORY I CAN IMAGINE.

I THINK THIS IS THE KIND OF PATRIOTISM WE SHOULD BE CELEBRATING.

THESE ARE THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO REALLY DEFEND DEMOCRACY.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO DEFEND DEMOCRACY, LIFT IT UP TO ITS HIGHEST, HIGHEST IDEALS.

THE IDEALS THAT WE TALK ABOUT A LOT AS AMERICAN IDEALS.

THEY WERE HOLDING US TO THE LIGHT AND SAYING, OKAY, ACT ON THEM.

I THINK THAT'S THE MOST PATRIOTIC THING AN AMERICAN CAN DO.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> A GREAT PLEASURE.

THANK YOU.>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, IT'S A BIG WEEK FOR BRAZIL.

THE RIO CARNIVAL, THE BIGGEST AND BRIGHTEST IN THE WORLD, HAS STARTED.

FRESH OFF SUNDAY'S OSCAR WIN FOR BEST INTERNATIONAL FEATURE FILM, I'M STILL HERE, WHICH HAS BEEN A SORT OF NATIONAL PRIDE.

AND REVELERS ARE DRESSING UP AS THE LEAD ACTRESS, FERNANDO TORRES.

THE PARADES AND STREET PARTIES WILL RUN UNTIL SATURDAY.

TORRES NOTED THAT, WELL, IT'S THE PEAK OF FAME BRAZIL TO BECOME A COSTUME OF THE CARNIVAL.

AND WHEN ASKED ON THE RED CARPET AT THE ACADEMY AWARDS WHAT GIFT SHE WANTED TO RECEIVE FROM HER FAMILY?

SHE REPLIED, THE QUEEN OF CARNIVAL.

LOOKS LIKE THAT DREAM CAME TRUE.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT TO SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.