GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I'm Amna Nawaz.

On the "News Hour" tonight: The U.S. delays many of the tariffs it imposed on Mexico and Canada two days ago.

How the back-and-forth is making it difficult for businesses to plan ahead.

GEOFF BENNETT: President Trump's push to fire federal workers and slash spending hits new roadblocks in the courts.

AMNA NAWAZ: And the Justice Department drops a Biden era challenge to an abortion law in Idaho, with nationwide implications for women experiencing life-threatening pregnancy complications.

MARY ZIEGLER, University of California, Davis: Physicians are unwilling to risk their liberty and livelihoods on guessing whether their conduct will fit within an exception.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

President Trump announced this afternoon that Elon Musk will need to consult with Cabinet secretaries before firing more federal workers.

AMNA NAWAZ: That came after Trump met with Musk and his Cabinet earlier in the day.

Lisa Desjardins joins us now with the latest on government layoffs and the court challenges surrounding them.

Lisa, good to see you.

LISA DESJARDINS: Hi.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, what exactly did President Trump announce here and what does it mean for any change in power that Elon Musk has?

LISA DESJARDINS: Those are the critical questions.

So Trump announced today that Musk must work with Cabinet secretaries to deal with firings at their agencies.

And, specifically, he said they're going to meet every other week.

Now, the secretaries, Trump said, will use a scalpel versus a hatchet, but obviously it has been the hatchet approach.

At the same time, as he seems to be empowering secretaries, Trump also said, however, if secretaries don't make cuts, Elon Musk will.

So I don't think there's a change in power here.

And I think what is happening, however, is the administration is reconfiguring after courts have been very clear that Elon Musk and the agents he's associated with do not have the power to make these firings.

So what they're doing is a kind of a work-around.

He will meet with Cabinet agencies and they will do the firing, but he's still right there.

AMNA NAWAZ: Speaking of the courts, there's been some major action affecting federal workers starting with thousands who could get their jobs back.

What's happening there?

LISA DESJARDINS: Quite a lot of news.

That first one has to do with the U.S. Department of Agriculture specifically, where we know now about 6,000 probationary workers were fired.

Now, in a ruling, this decision is from a critical agency that people don't talk about a lot called the Merit Systems Protection Board.

Now, in this ruling that came out just late last night, the chair of that organization wrote that probationary workers fired - - those are those in their jobs a year or less -- who were sent the same dismissal letter, the chair wrote that they -- "I find that there are reasonable grounds to believe that the agency, USDA, terminated the aforementioned probationary employees in violation of U.S.

law."

Now, the ruling, when you get into it, finds a number of reasons that this was in violation, but overall the idea here is that mass firings are not allowed under statute, the way they have been done in a generic form.

Now, I want to talk about where we are overall with firings.

So, if you look at that USDA change there from that granting, it's in addition to GSA.

That is the General Services Administration.

They have had 600 new firings.

At the Department of Ed, there are thousands waiting tonight to see if they will be fired.

Now, then you put in the 6,000 that have been ordered to have their jobs reinstated, as I just reported.

All together, Amna, by my total, we still have about 31,000, at least, people who have been fired.

One other important development, this one in Trump's favor.

Last night, a court ruled that a key watchdog, the special counsel we have talked about on this program, Hampton Dellinger, that, in fact, he cannot be reinstated for his job.

They took him out of that watchdog post, and today he announced he's not going to appeal the case because it would just take too long.

That's a critical watchdog function.

Now he's out of that job.

AMNA NAWAZ: There's a lot of court action to keep track of here, but there's also news about contractors and organizations that are dealing with the federal funding freezes.

What do we need to know about that?

LISA DESJARDINS: Right.

First I want to talk about the freezing of grants and loans that were affecting a lot of organizations around this country.

There was a temporary ruling put in place.

A judge now has said that that needs to stay in force much longer.

Here is what the judge wrote when he blasted Trump's funding freeze.

He wrote: "This fundamentally undermines the distinct constitutional roles of each branch of government.

Here, this executive put itself above Congress."

Judge McConnell in that case saying, he's not against executive power, but this is an overreach.

Now, at the same time, I want to talk about where we are with USAID and cases involving foreign aid.

First of all, there were contractors that were hired by USAID who lost their job.

A judge has denied their reinstatement, those contractors who had those jobs.

Now, on the other hand foreign aid organizations, as John Yang reported last night, the Supreme Court has ordered that they should be repaid for services they have already rendered.

Those organizations are still waiting for that money.

We're waiting for an order on when that would happen.

And I will note that at least one large partner organization announced it's closing today.

AMNA NAWAZ: Lisa Desjardins, thank you so much.

LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.

AMNA NAWAZ: In the day's other news: The Trump administration today once again put Europe on notice, as European leaders met to try and coalesce around a new defense plan.

President Trump said he would selectively abide by Article 5, which commits the U.S. to defend NATO countries.

And a senior official blamed Ukraine itself for the U.S. pause on military and intelligence support ahead of a planned U.S.-Ukraine meeting next week.

Here's Nick Schifrin with more.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: I view NATO as potentially good, but you have got to get some good thinking in NATO.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Today, in the White House, President Trump questioned one of the U.S.' most consequential commitments, to defend any NATO country that is attacked.

DONALD TRUMP: If they don't pay, I'm not going to defend them.

No, I'm not going to defend them.

NICK SCHIFRIN: President Trump has long complained that European countries don't spend enough on defense.

Today, 23 of 32 spend at least 2 percent of their GDP on defense, but President Trump doubts their commitment to common defense known as Article 5.

Europeans are trying to erase those doubts, and tonight endorsed a rearm plan, expanding the E.U.

's defense spending by $800 billion and giving governments money to invest in Ukrainian weapons or buy American weapons to send to Ukraine.

Polish President Andrzej Duda speaking at NATO: ANDRZEJ DUDA, Polish President (through translator): If the whole of NATO does not increase their defense spending, then, unfortunately, possibly, Vladimir Putin would be eager to attack again because there would not be enough of a deterrent.

NICK SCHIFRIN: On the red carpet in Brussels today, Europe and Ukraine standing shoulder to shoulder.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, Ukrainian President: You made a strong signal to Ukrainian people, to Ukrainian warriors, to civilians to all our families.

And it's great that we are not alone.

We feel it and we know it.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But Ukraine also feels nightly Russian attacks.

And once again today, Russia struck a civilian target, this time a hotel in President Zelenskyy's hometown in Southern Ukraine, where American volunteers were staying, including Adam.

ADAM, American Volunteer in Ukraine: I'm sure there's a reason that we have all survived, and it's so that we can continue to help Ukraine for as long as it takes.

Ukraine is a wonderful country and is an example to the world for democracy, freedom.

LT. GEN. KEITH KELLOGG (RET.

), Special Envoy to Ukraine and Russia: Very candidly, they brought it on themselves.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But 5,000 miles away, Special Envoy to Ukraine in Russia Keith Kellogg blamed Zelenskyy for the U.S. decision to pause intelligence and military aid.

LT. GEN. KEITH KELLOGG: You don't negotiate peace discussions in public.

You don't try to challenge the president of the United States in the Oval Office that, in fact, you need to side with me and not the Russians.

It is sort of like hitting a mule with a two-by-four across the nose.

You got their attention.

This is one of those, listen to me.

We're serious about this.

And you need to understand we're serious about this.

And this is one of the ways we made sure they understood.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And he suggested the meeting between Special Envoy Steve Witkoff and Russian President Vladimir Putin produced an understanding.

LT. GEN. KEITH KELLOGG: We are aware.

It's sort of like a quid pro quo, where you want to go and what you want to do and the discussions that were made.

And it's...

QUESTION: Is their term sheet, essentially?

LT. GEN. KEITH KELLOGG: Well, I use the term, term sheet.

And term sheet is -- the answer is, yes, in generalization.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Ukrainian soldiers and their commanders have described U.S. policy shifts as a betrayal, as voiced today by Ukraine's former army chief and current ambassador to London, Valerii Zaluzhnyi.

VALERII ZALUZHNYI, Ukrainian Ambassador to the United Kingdom (through translator): It is not only Russia and the axis that is trying to destroy the world order, but the United States of America is actually destroying it completely.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Senior Trump officials say that is not the president's intention, but they say he does intend to unsettle and disrupt.

And Ukraine feels that its survival is at stake.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Nick Schifrin.

AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, on Capitol Hill, the House voted to censure Democrat Al Green today for disrupting President Trump's address to Congress earlier this week; 10 Democrats joined Republican members in passing the resolution.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The House will come to order.

Clear the well, please.

Clear the well.

The House has to continue its business.

(SINGING) AMNA NAWAZ: A chaotic scene followed the vote, as some 20 fellow Democrats joined Green in singing "We Shall Overcome" and refused to leave the well of the chamber.

Speaker Mike Johnson eventually declared the House in recess.

Later, on the House floor, Green defended his protests and addressed the president directly.

REP. AL GREEN (D-TX): You are a Goliath.

But, Mr. President, there are Davids among us.

Your incivility can no longer be tolerated.

It has to be met with righteous indignation and righteous incivility.

AMNA NAWAZ: On Tuesday night, the representative from Texas took issue when Trump claimed to have an historic mandate from voters.

Green refused to sit down and shouted at Trump before Speaker Mike Johnson ordered him removed from the chamber.

Presidential addresses to Congress have grown more contentious in recent years.

In 2009 Republican, Representative Joe Wilson was formally reprimanded by the House for shouting at then-President Obama.

Republican lawmakers also interrupted Joe Biden during his speech last year.

A judge in Baltimore agreed to reduce the sentence for Adnan Syed to time serve today.

That means the 43-year-old will remain free, even though his murder conviction still stands.

Syed's case gained worldwide attention through the "Serial" podcast.

He was sentenced in 2000 to life in prison for the murder of his former high school girlfriend.

Syed also always maintained his innocence and was released from prison in 2022 after prosecutors found problems with the case.

Since his release, Syed has been working at Georgetown University's Prisons and Justice Initiative.

In South Korea, a pair of fighter jets accidentally dropped eight bombs on a civilian area during a joint military exercise with U.S. forces.

The incident took place in the city of Pocheon near the country's heavily armed border with North Korea.

Camera footage caught the moment of impact.

At least eight people were injured, four of them seriously.

South Korea's air force has apologized and offered compensation to the victims.

An investigation is ongoing and all live-fire training has been suspended until further notice.

Pope Francis was heard in public today for the first time since being hospitalized with double pneumonia nearly three weeks ago.

In an audio message broadcast to the faithful in St. Peter's Square, the 88-year-old pontiff spoke directly to those who supported him.

"I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your prayers for my health," Francis said in his native Spanish.

His voice was notably weak and breathless.

A cardinal stood to the side presiding over the evening prayers.

Doctors say Pope Francis has been stable for three full days, though his prognosis remains guarded.

In space news, U.S. company Intuitive Machines said this afternoon that its Athena lunar lander did touch down on the South Side of the moon today, but they could not confirm whether it's upright or indeed even where it is.

Earlier all had appeared well for the six-legged robotic spacecraft as it began its descent, but some 20 minutes after touchdown: MAN: We are working to evaluate exactly what our orientation is on the surface.

AMNA NAWAZ: The company could not confirm its status.

After a few tense moments, the live Webcast abruptly ended.

It wasn't until hours later that the CEO of Intuitive Machines confirmed that the lander is not -- quote -- "in the correct attitude on the moon," but that it is returning data.

The mission comes almost exactly one year after an attempt by the same company resulted in a spacecraft landing on the moon, but tipping on its side.

Amid the confusion today, shares of Intuitive Machines fell about 20 percent.

And jazz musician and composer Roy Ayers has died.

He was a master of the vibraphone, as well as an accomplished keyboardist and vocalist who brought a whole new sound to jazz.

His 1976 hit "Everybody Loves the Sunshine" has been sampled by artists like Tupac, Dr. Dre, and Mary J. Blige.

Known as the Godfather of neo-soul, Ayers had 12 albums land in the Billboard charts over his six-decade career.

His family said he passed away from a long illness.

Roy Ayers was 84 years old.

Still to come on the "News Hour": former Social Security head Martin O'Malley on how potential cuts could put older Americans at risk; and what to know about President Trump's cryptocurrency plans.

This week, the Trump administration moved to dismiss a lawsuit against the state of Idaho that sought to allow abortions in the case of medical emergencies.

Idaho is one of 12 states across the country with a near-total abortion ban.

The Biden administration originally sued Idaho, arguing that federal law requires doctors to perform an abortion if a patient's life is at risk.

Joining me now to discuss the impact is Mary Ziegler, a professor at U.C.

Davis School of Law and legal historian on reproductive rights.

Mary, welcome back to the "News Hour."

Thanks for joining us.

MARY ZIEGLER, University of California, Davis, School of Law: Thanks for having me.

AMNA NAWAZ: So we should note the Supreme Court did weigh in on this case last year.

It's that ruling that allowed emergency abortions to continue in Idaho, but they kicked the key legal question back to this appeals court.

So, Mary, what does the Trump administration's move to dismiss the case mean for its future?

MARY ZIEGLER: Well, at the moment, the case seems to be dead on arrival.

There's an interesting question about whether some other party will try to intervene to keep the case alive, in other words, whether there will be some other party with standing that can step in where the Trump administration has backed away.

But we don't know yet if that's going to happen.

AMNA NAWAZ: So emergency room doctors had been performing what they deemed to be lifesaving abortions while this was in litigation.

Without the case, where does that leave doctors on the ground and patients in need of this care?

MARY ZIEGLER: It leaves them in a tremendous amount of uncertainty.

Idaho has maintained throughout this litigation that its abortion ban permits what it views as medically necessary abortions.

Physicians have been unclear as to whether that's true and I think also unwilling to risk the kind of penalties that Idaho law authorizes for making the wrong guess.

And we have seen, since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in 2022, that physicians have been pretty risk-averse.

So we would expect to see more of the same in Idaho.

And that will, of course, have impacts on patients seeking abortion and also patients with wanted pregnancies.

AMNA NAWAZ: There was, it's my understanding, a sort of test period in Idaho in which the ban was in place before the Biden era litigation sort of paused the implementation there.

Did we see anything in the way of impact during that period that tells us what could be ahead for the impact on the ground?

MARY ZIEGLER: Yes, we did.

So there were several instances in which patients had to be airlifted to other hospitals because physicians in Idaho were unwilling to treat them or unsure if they could intervene.

Again, I think Idaho maintained that that was an overreaction by physicians.

But we're going to see more of the same almost inevitably because physicians are unwilling to risk their liberty and livelihoods on guessing whether their conduct will fit within an exception.

And we'd expect to see more of the same as this law goes back into effect.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, more broadly, in terms of the implication here, I mean, what is this signal to you about how this Trump administration views and plans to interpret federal laws that are designed to protect emergency or urgent care when they bump up against state laws like state abortion bans that conflict with that?

MARY ZIEGLER: Yes, I mean, one of the things I think that's telling is that the Trump administration hasn't been particularly vocal about its positions on abortion.

It hasn't been something that President Trump has been foregrounding.

But I think, slowly and without a lot of fanfare, we're starting to see the Trump administration bringing policy into alignment with the preferences of the anti-abortion movement.

And, of course, there are other things we're waiting to see on that front too, most notably access to mifepristone, which is a drug used in more than half of all abortions in the United States.

This week, the Trump administration asked a judge, Matthew Kacsmaryk, for more time to review the administration's position on mifepristone in critically important litigation going forward.

So I think this is a sign that there's going to be more to come from the Trump administration in moving policy in a pretty radically or considerably conservative direction when it comes to abortion.

AMNA NAWAZ: Related to mifepristone access, there was Mr. Trump's pick to lead the FDA.

Dr. Marty Makary, who was in his confirmation hearing on Capitol Hill today, was asked about access to that abortion pill, and would only say that he has no preconceived plans on mifepristone policy.

So do you foresee access to mifepristone going away under new FDA leadership?

MARY ZIEGLER: It seems pretty likely that access to mifepristone will change.

I don't know if the FDA and the Trump administration will move to entirely eliminate mifepristone access, for example, by using the Comstock Act or just removing mifepristone from the market, or if instead the Trump administration will roll back restrictions that had been in place on mifepristone and eliminate telehealth access to it.

But it seems like that's the bare minimum we're likely to see.

I think it's more likely to be a question of when, rather than if.

AMNA NAWAZ: Mary Ziegler from U.C.

Davis School of Law, always good to speak with you.

Thank you so much for making the time.

Appreciate it.

MARY ZIEGLER: Thanks for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: President Trump has temporarily suspended new tariffs on most goods coming into the U.S. from Mexico and Canada, just two days after he set them into motion.

The delay gives both countries a one-month reprieve on products traded under the U.S.-Mexico-Canada agreement.

That's the trading agreement that replaced NAFTA under the last Trump administration.

Yesterday, the president granted a similar pause for automakers.

But the beginnings of what seems to be a trade war and the sudden swings in policy are rattling investors and markets.

The three major stock indices in the U.S. fell again today.

To help sort through all of this, we're joined now by Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's.

Welcome back to the "NewsHour."

So, the nation's trade policy changed hour by hour today.

What's your reaction to this monthlong delay?

And why do you think President Trump issued it?

MARK ZANDI, Chief Economist, Moody's Analytics: Not -- well, the on-again off-again tariffs, Geoff, are a problem for businesses.

They're trying to get their minds around what all this means.

Tariffs on which countries, which products, which companies, how long?

All the uncertainty is just creating all kinds of havoc for businesses in their hiring and investment decisions.

And another month delay, OK, but just one more thing to worry about and consider and to try to take in.

And then what happens a month from now?

I'm sure all businesspeople are asking themselves that question.

Not until we get clarity around the tariffs, exactly how high are they going to be and on which countries, which products, I don't -- I think businesses are going to sit on their hands.

They may not cut back.

They may not fire people.

They may not reduce investment.

That would mean a recession.

But they certainly will be much more cautious.

And that obviously puts the economy at risk.

And that's what the stock market is saying.

The stock market is saying, hey, this is really bad for business.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, yes, retail sales are down as are manufacturing sales, manufacturing production, real consumer spending, consumer confidence.

What are the risks of this uncertainty to the American public?

MARK ZANDI: Well, clearly, it slows the economy down.

I mean, just to put this into a little bit of context, the economy came into the year performing very well, had an exceptional year in 2024, lots of growth, lots of jobs, unemployment 4 percent, very, very low.

So it looked like it could weather a lot of storms.

But the tariffs is stacking up to be a pretty significant storm.

And if it continues to rage, if we don't see some clarity here pretty soon, within weeks, I think businesses are going to start pulling back.

We are going to start to see job loss.

We potentially could suffer a recession.

Now, in President Trump's first term, we kind of sort of went down this path to a significant degree, and the president was very responsive to what he saw in the stock market.

The stock market sold off.

He was listening to businesspeople, and he ultimately struck a deal with the Chinese.

That's who he imposed the tariffs on, and things cooled off, life went on, and we made our way through.

Hopefully, that's the same thing that happens here relatively soon, very soon, that he does decide to figure out how to strike a deal and cool things off and get back to business, because if he doesn't, if the administration doesn't do this, then we're going to be facing a recession, and that means job loss and lost income and lost wealth.

Nobody wants that.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, to your point, President Trump appears to be using these tariffs as a leverage point, as a negotiating tactic.

From where you sit, has it been effective?

MARK ZANDI: Not so far.

I mean, he's imposed tariffs on China.

He's imposed tariffs on Canada and Mexico.

The Canadians and Mexicans responded to the first rounds of tariff by saying they're putting more troops on the border to address the fentanyl and immigration issues.

But, so far, that's really small potato.

I don't think that's a very significant policy response.

So, no, I would say so far we haven't gotten much, the president hasn't, as an upshot of these -- the trade war that's ensued.

GEOFF BENNETT: Mexico's president seems to be having more success in her talks with President Trump about all this than does the prime minister of Canada.

Have you seen any differences, major differences, in their strategies that would account for that?

MARK ZANDI: Well, maybe where they are in their tenures as leaders of their countries, right?

Prime Minister Trudeau is at the end of his tenure as prime minister of Canada, may feel he has more latitude here to respond.

He's not as fettered politically.

And President Sheinbaum in Mexico, she's, of course, very new to her post.

She just was elected.

And so she might be -- might feel a little bit more circumspect.

The other thing might be just raw economics, right?

If you look at Canadian imports into the United States, accounts for, what, 16, 17 percent of their GDP, which is a lot, but it's a lot lower than Mexicans' dependence on U.S. -- exports from Mexico to the U.S. That's closer to 25 percent of GDP.

So, that may also be playing a role.

But this is important.

I think leaders around the world who are waiting for tariffs on their own economies are looking at this and seeing what the Canadians are doing, what the Mexicans and are doing, and trying to learn some lessons from that.

GEOFF BENNETT: Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's, thanks again for being with us.

MARK ZANDI: Sure thing.

GEOFF BENNETT: President Trump continues to say his administration won't touch Social Security, the social safety net that around 70 million retired and disabled Americans depend on each month.

But as Elon Musk and the so-called Department of Government Efficiency look to slash federal jobs and spending, the Social Security Administration has plans to cut 12 percent of its work force.

Our Laura Barron-Lopez reports on how that could affect the program and its payments.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: The acting agency head told employees this week that it's Musk and DOGE that are calling the shots at SSA.

The Washington Post reported that Leland Dudek told senior staff at SSA that Musk's team of -- quote -- "outsiders who are unfamiliar with nuances of SSA programs are making decisions and that they will make mistakes."

And, this morning, the agency told its workers they can no longer use their government computers to look at, among other things, news Web sites, even blocking access to some of them.

The restriction was said to help protect sensitive information.

But news sites and obituaries are often relied on to confirm death information and prevent fraud.

For a closer look at the effect of potential cuts to Social Security, I'm joined by Martin O'Malley, who was the commissioner of SSA during the Biden administration and previously served as the governor of Maryland.

Governor O'Malley, thank you so much for joining the "News Hour."

The Social Security Administration is looking to cut 12 percent of its work force, some 7,000 people.

How will people receiving Social Security benefits potentially feel the effect of those cuts?

How will this impact the agency?

MARTIN O'MALLEY, Former Commissioner, Social Security Administration: Ever since December, people have been putting in -- those eligible to retire have started to leave the agency.

The agency had already had been driven down to a 50-year low in staffing, even as Baby Boomers of my generation swelled their customer ranks to a new record high every single day.

So, people are going to experience much longer wait times on the telephone.

We had gotten that speed to answer down to 12.5 minutes.

It's now shot back up on average to over a half-hour now.

You're going to see more people dying, waiting in line for their initial disability determinations, which we had started to get moving in a better direction.

That's now going back up.

And it's going to take longer when people do decide to retire to actually effectuate that claim and get them into a payment status.

Ultimately, all of this cratering out of the agency, all of this gutting of the agency's customer service staffing is going to have, I think, very widespread consequences for all 72 million people receiving Social Security, because they have never had to operate these old systems with such few staff, and they are being gutted every single day.

I think they're going to drive more than 7,000 people out of the agency.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: There could be more changes coming to the agency.

Elon Musk has called Social Security -- quote - - "a Ponzi scheme."

President Trump claims that millions of people from 100 years old to 300 years old are getting Social Security money.

And Speaker Mike Johnson has told people to not believe the Social Security Administration inspector general report that said that only 1 percent of Social Security payments are improper.

What's your response to all that?

MARTIN O'MALLEY: It seems that there's a concerted effort to undermine public trust in Social Security, an institution which, by the way, Laura, has the highest trust rating, second only to the Interior Department and Smokey the Bear.

So all of these things, we have heard these arguments before, the Ponzi scheme one.There are not tens of millions of dead people walking around stealing our benefits.

That's been debunked by everyone, including the acting commissioner, who's saluting and taking orders from DOGE.

So I think what they're trying to do is undermine public trust and public confidence in Social Security.

I believe they are intentionally trying to break it, so that then they can loot it for some reason.

I don't really understand what that reason is, but they seem to be hell-bent on gutting the agency and driving it into a ditch.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: In an e-mail to employees earlier this week, the acting administrator said that SSA needs to -- quote -- "outsource nonessential functions to industry experts."

So some in the agency took that to mean that maybe they're going to privatize elements of the SSA.

That could potentially be one of the goals here.

What impact would that have if they moved to privatize sections of the agency?

MARTIN O'MALLEY: The notion that somehow you can fire all the public employees and automatically private sector will step up, how are they going to do that?

Allstate operates at 11 percent overhead as a big insurance company.

Liberty Mutual operates at 23 percent overhead.

When this agency operated well, Laura, they were allowed to operate at 1.2 percent overhead.

I think people running agencies should learn and understand them before they go about dismantling them and crashing them.

For 90 years, they haven't missed a monthly payment, but now they're putting it -- being put at great risk of doing that by being hollowed out and being gutted.

Private sector solutions, sure, bring them on.

But there's no way to serve ever-growing customer base with ever-reduced staffing.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: You recently said that -- quote -- "people should start saving now."

Why are you issuing that warning?

MARTIN O'MALLEY: Because I know a lot -- I learned a lot about the agency and I learned a lot about its I.T.

systems.

The agency is all people helping people and the systems that those people need to process claims, effectuate payments, and make sure that the 72 million Americans get their direct deposit every month or those that opt for a paper check get those.

All of their systems are very old.

They are driving the people out of the agency who actually understand how to maintain that system, not just to code in COBOL, but understand the architecture of how that foundation supports the other foundations on top of it.

So, I believe that you're going to see increasing outages of longer durations of the claims processing systems that will ultimately cascade into a total system collapse that will interrupt benefits.

Whether that will be just one month and then they get it back up, whether that will be two months, I don't know.

But I do believe that people should -- I know that people depend entire -- some people depend entirely on Social Security, but they should start saving for what I believe is the inevitable cratering of this agency and the interruption, for some time anyway, of the benefits.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Martin O'Malley, former head of the Social Security Administration, thank you for your time.

MARTIN O'MALLEY: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: President Trump is holding the first crypto summit at the White House tomorrow, featuring investors, CEOs and founders of crypto companies.

Many in that world also hope that Trump spells out a clearer path involving little regulation in the future.

And Trump says he will announce the details of a new crypto reserve for the federal government.

GEOFF BENNETT: Estimates vary widely, but surveys have found anywhere from 7 to 28 percent of U.S. adults invest in crypto.

The market's total value is estimated around $3 trillion at the moment.

There are also real concerns about the stability of crypto and similar digital assets and whether President Trump has potential conflicts of interest.

Our Paul Solman breaks it down for us.

PAUL SOLMAN: Let's start with some basics.

A cryptocurrency like Bitcoin is a bit of computer code, really just a unique string of dozens of characters that identifies your ownership of some strictly digital asset, existing only in what my mother disparagingly called cyberspace.

NEHA NARULA, MIT Digital Currency Initiative: So, that's really different than most of the other assets that we think about in the world.

Bitcoin itself is classified as a commodity, like things like gold, but those commodities have a real-world analog component.

There's gold sitting in a vault somewhere.

There's a bar or there's a coin.

Bitcoin's purely digital, digital first.

PAUL SOLMAN: When I first covered cryptocurrency back in 2013, one Bitcoin was worth about $125, five years later, more than $7,000.

Now a whole Bitcoin is selling near $90,000.

So what's its appeal?

VIC LARANJA, Crypto Content Creator: If I want to send money to somebody, it has to pass through multiple institutions to get to them.

With crypto, I don't need to wait.

The money is liquid.

You can have it instantly.

It's almost free to send it, and that is innovation.

It's just better.

PAUL SOLMAN: And Bitcoin is supposed to be even scarcer than gold, as there's an absolute limit to the supply, unlike government currencies like the dollar, which can suffer inflation, and in cases like Germany in 1923 and Zimbabwe and Venezuela more recently, hyperinflation.

Plus, all transactions are publicly displayed on something called a blockchain, tracked on every computer that uses the software.

NEHA NARULA: Another huge component of whether or not something is a good store of value is whether people believe in it, whether they have decided it's a good store of value.

So it's kind of got these dual sides.

You need to have certain properties that we can talk about pretty rationally, but then there's this narrative component.

PAUL SOLMAN: One part of the narrative, Bitcoin will gradually replace currencies like the dollar as a form of payment, but given the volatility of its value: ZEKE FAUX, Author, "Number Go Up": If you're talking to anyone who's saying that Bitcoin is going to be used for payments, that's kind of a fringe idea.

Most Bitcoiners now just stick to the idea that the price will go up forever, and that we will all get rich.

PAUL SOLMAN: OK, that's a digital asset like Bitcoin, Ether, Solana, and now thousands of others.

But what about meme coins in general and the Trump coin in particular?

MOLLY WHITE, Crypto Researcher and Software Engineer: Meme coins are crypto assets that are themed around a specific idea or sometimes a person.

Generally, there is no business behind a meme coin project.

There's no sort of greater purpose, but they are used as vehicles for speculation.

PAUL SOLMAN: Meme coins have become very popular of late.

One of the most well-known is Dogecoin, long-hyped by Elon Musk.

It's based on a Shiba Inu dog meme and has had enduring value, but most meme coins don't.

MOLLY WHITE: The asset is worth whatever you can sell it for and you better try to do it quick before it goes to zero.

VIC LARANJA: There are over five million meme coins; 99 percent of them go to zero.

PAUL SOLMAN: It's a game.

The goal, get in early and hope that, to use the old Wall Street expression, a greater fool will come along and pay a higher price.

VIC LARANJA: We call it vaporware.

There's no promise or utility with a meme coin, other than the connection to the idea.

PAUL SOLMAN: In January, President Trump announced his own meme coin.

MOLLY WHITE: The Trump Token was one of the biggest meme coins that we have ever seen launched.

President Trump, just before his inauguration, launched a meme coin themed around himself.

Shortly after, his wife launched a meme coin called Melania Token, which came a couple days later.

PAUL SOLMAN: What happened when the Trump meme coin came out on the market?

VIC LARANJA: Insanity.

It was one of the craziest nights I have ever experienced in crypto ever.

Like, it was nuts, because no one believed that it was real.

Everyone thought it was a scam.

Everyone thought that his account was hacked.

PAUL SOLMAN: But the Trump coin was real, one billion of them to be released over three years.

Two hundred million were released to the market.

The coin's creators own the remaining 800 million.

VIC LARANJA: I was like, OK, I'm going to put a little bit of money into this, because if I'm wrong, that's going to suck.

And this is the amount of money that I'm OK with just completely losing.

PAUL SOLMAN: In fact, Laranja says he made a little money on his Trump coin bet.

But if you invested late, you sure didn't.

ZEKE FAUX: A small number of people got in early and profited from this Trump coin.

The majority of people who bought the coin ended up losing money.

And they can see this because you can track transactions on the blockchain.

PAUL SOLMAN: Hundreds of thousands of crypto accounts lost money on the bet, amounting to billions in cumulative losses.

Meanwhile, the Trump-affiliated creators of the coin made some $100 million in fees alone, plus presumably profits from the coin itself.

MOLLY WHITE: About 80 percent of the token supply was allocated to Trump and Trump entities.

And so, based on the token price, he potentially makes quite a lot of money off of that token.

PAUL SOLMAN: But to some in the crypto community, the Trump coin's downside is more that it's a gateway to scamming.

VIC LARANJA: Because he basically opened the floodgates for people to scam without being scared of it.

People in the space call it crime season.

That's what started.

Crime season started.

PAUL SOLMAN: Now, President Trump's views on crypto have evolved.

In 2021, he called Bitcoin a scam.

But with the Biden administration tough on crypto in general, supporters began to back Trump and his reelection bid.

ZEKE FAUX: David Bailey, who runs "Bitcoin" magazine, which is the organizer of the annual Bitcoin conference that draws thousands of Bitcoiners from around the world, he got together a group of a few dozen of the top Bitcoin investors and got them to agree to donate the maximum amount to Trump, which, if you count all the committees and everything, is $844,600 each.

PAUL SOLMAN: Trump's pledge?

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: The United States will be the crypto capital of the planet and the Bitcoin superpower of the world.

(CHEERING) PAUL SOLMAN: In part by overhauling regulations.

ZEKE FAUX: And, so far, he's taken a number of steps in that direction.

SEC has been dropping investigations and lawsuits against a number of crypto companies.

One of the SEC lawyers who took the lead on some of these crypto enforcement actions has been punished by being transferred to the I.T.

department.

I mean, there's a huge conflict of interest here.

Trump has his own crypto businesses, and his administration is now deciding an entirely new set of rules that are going to govern this industry.

PAUL SOLMAN: Trump's also planning a U.S. crypto strategic reserve to include Bitcoin and other tokens, which could boost the value of the president's own crypto ventures, of which there are several.

MOLLY WHITE: So it started with him launching several NFT projects that were themed around him.

He also is a major beneficiary of a company called World Liberty Financial, which is a crypto-based project that plans to launch some sort of a crypto application in the near future.

He receives something like 75 percent of the proceeds from that project.

His TRUTH Social platform, which he owns, has been talking about launching a crypto segment, where they would allow for crypto trading.

They have spoken about holding crypto assets themselves.

So he has very deep involvement in the crypto world these days.

PAUL SOLMAN: And that raises another issue.

MOLLY WHITE: Members of the government are not supposed to receive money from people who are trying to influence policy, and these new crypto projects provide a very direct way for such people to do so, often in ways that can be a little bit more challenging to trace than, say, a bank transfer.

PAUL SOLMAN: If, that is, anyone is trying to trace them at all.

For the "PBS News Hour," Paul Solman.

AMNA NAWAZ: And we will be back shortly with a look at the intersection of technology and Hollywood.

GEOFF BENNETT: But, first, take a moment to hear from your local PBS station.

It's a chance to offer your support, which helps to keep programs like this one on the air.

AMNA NAWAZ: For those of you staying with us, an encore from one of rock 'n' roll's greatest songwriters.

GEOFF BENNETT: Last year, Nick Lowe released his first full-time, full-length album in nearly a dozen years.

Here's a second look from special correspondent Tom Casciato for our arts and culture series, Canvas.

(MUSIC) TOM CASCIATO: It's hard to find rock 'n' roll's credentials more solid than Nick Lowe's.

And it's not just because he tours with a surf rock band, Los Straitjackets in their trademark Mexican wrestling masks.

From pub rock to new wave, he built his rep in the '70s, solo and in the bands Brinsley Schwarz and Rockpile.

He was also a producer for Graham Parker, The Damned, and Elvis Costello.

He even penned one of rock's most memorable anthems, made famous by Costello.

But if rock 'n' roll is all you know about Nick Lowe and his 75 years on the planet, and well over 50 in the music business, well, let's start at the start.

NICK LOWE, Musician: My father was a career RAF officer.

He was a pilot.

He met my mom during the war.

She was in the women's Royal Air Force.

She came from a show business family, sort of vaudeville really.

She was a very good singer and taught me how to sing "Inchworm" from Hans Christian Andersen, Danny Kaye thing.

And that's got this lovely descant, where the kids sing one tune and there's a countermelody.

I figured out how to be able to sing another tune while somebody was singing a different tune.

And a third element is created.

And I kept on bugging her to do it again: "Come on, mom.

Let's do the 'Inchworm' song."

TOM CASCIATO: He recalls more seeds his mother planted, the country of Tennessee Ernie Ford, the jazzy pop of Nat King Cole.

NICK LOWE: You know, Sinatra, Peggy Lee, pre-Beatles era music, which I love.

TOM CASCIATO: But then came the Beatles, and scenes like this led young Nick straight to rock 'n' roll.

NICK LOWE: You know, I wanted to be famous, on the TV, meet more girls that way.

That was my main ambition at the time.

Well, it didn't take me too long to realize that if I wanted to have any kind of long career, I had to learn how to write songs.

TOM CASCIATO: So a composer he became, writing songs he still performs today.

But as he gained confidence, he also learned humility, as when he produced Costello's classic debut album.

NICK LOWE: I started the record with Elvis saying: "Right, Elvis, so I think what you should do here is this, that, and don't sing there."

And then after, about two days, I was turning up in the studio and saying: "Good morning, Mr. Costello.

What would you like to do today?"

TOM CASCIATO: In 1979, Nick achieved hitmaker status on his own.

A British documentary from the era shows him looking very much a rock star, but he says that involved a certain amount of role play.

NICK LOWE: I realized really soon that I wasn't the sort of person who could sustain that.

TOM CASCIATO: So you didn't think rock superstardom sure to follow?

NICK LOWE: No, no, no, no.

You know, I'm not an Elton John or a Cher.

And I have always thought that the most fun you can have is just before you make it.

TOM CASCIATO: In the '80s, just after he'd made it, it sure looked like Nick was having fun, maybe the time of his life.

You watch the videos and you look like you're on top of the world.

NICK LOWE: Yes, I suppose -- I suppose it did.

But I thought that was me in decline.

I could feel my pop star status waning.

I was drinking and taking too many drugs in a bid to try and cheer myself up and write better songs.

And it doesn't work, boys and girls.

But also my pop star shtick was boring me as well.

TOM CASCIATO: It sounds like it was hard for a time for Nick Lowe to be Nick Lowe.

But in the ensuing decades, he abandoned the rock star stance and took on the role he has to this day, that of what "Rolling Stone" has called a master songwriter who never takes himself too seriously.

QUESTION: You are Britain's songwriter, right?

NICK LOWE: I think that Paul McCartney might have something to say about that.

But... (LAUGHTER) TOM CASCIATO: He gained that status partly by reaching back to the music he learned from his mom.

A lot of the music you have recorded from the '90s on, I think, has as much of a relationship to that pre-Beatles era as to the rock era.

NICK LOWE: Yes, well, that's nice of you to observe that.

TOM CASCIATO: Nick and the band have a new album, "Indoor Safari," in which they have rerecorded some of his favorite compositions of recent vintage.

And he still strikes a good pose, but he's got a few things to say to the kid who wanted to be a star.

If Nick in 2024 could talk to Nick in 1974, there's something to know now that you wish you knew then?

NICK LOWE: Well, Johnny Cash once said to me, incredibly disappointingly, I thought at the time: "Nick, what you have got to do is figure out how to be yourself."

I didn't really know what he meant.

I thought, is that the best you could do, John?

But, actually, now I do.

Because, when you're young, you're trying to sort of cop an act.

You are trying to be -- always trying to be somebody that you're not.

And you have got to sort of welcome in the things that you don't really like about yourself, you know, but welcome it in.

Because if you can figure out how to be yourself, it makes things so much easier.

TOM CASCIATO: For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Tom Casciato in Tarrytown, New York.

GEOFF BENNETT: Finally tonight, a story from the PBS News Student Reporting Labs, our journalism training program for high school students.

As part of our Canvas coverage, we featured some of the work from the Southern California PST Art initiative that examines how science and art collide.

AMNA NAWAZ: Student reporter Ebonie Shelley has now the story of two exhibitions at the Academy Museum of Motion Pictures that are part of PST and explore the relationship between movies and technology.

SOPHIA SERRANO, Academy Museum of Motion Pictures: I often say that color is interesting because if it's done right you don't notice it.

You are perceiving it and it's impacting you.

It's not being drawn attention to.

And so one of the things that we really hope with the exhibition is that it gives people a new understanding of what they're seeing on screen.

EBONIE SHELLEY: The Academy Museum in Los Angeles, California, is exploring the intersectionality of movies and technology as part of the PST ART Initiative with two exhibitions.

Color in Motion the history and subtlety of a color palette.

SOPHIA SERRANO: You know we wanted to show people the intention behind color, how it really is an art form in itself and one of the kind of hidden arts of cinema.

So the gallery in which we show all the costumes and props, we're showing Technicolor to present because we're showing how color in front of the camera really impacted people's processes.

We have Natalie Kalmus, who's the color director and she's really influencing the color palette of a movie.

And so we see her name on a lot of Technicolor films, so you will see her doing "Wizard of Oz" or movies -- really notable Technicolor movies from that era.

She's the one who's responsible for setting those palettes.

You see a lot of super-saturated, really vivid color films, especially in sci-fi today.

EBONIE SHELLEY: Just downstairs from Dorothy's ruby slippers, cyberpunk envisions possible futures through cinema and showcases the lessons of sci-fi and advancing technology.

NICHOLAS BARLOW, Assistant Curator, Academy Museum of Motion Pictures: I think one of the things that's fascinating for this exhibition is, we're looking at different time periods depicting the future and what they're bringing to that imagined future, their own anxieties and concerns.

What happens is, in these stories, groups of rebels and people who are marginalized or pushed to the side on the peripheries fight for survival in the face of environmental collapse and societal ruin.

In some ways, the technology is always pushing the filmmakers forward, and then the filmmakers are always pushing the technology forward.

It's always trying to figure out something new.

And in figuring that out, they are kind of inventing or requiring new technology.

You have to come here and experience in person, because it is immersive and exciting and seductive and amusing and fascinating in all the different ways that these films that we're trying to champion are.

EBONIE SHELLEY: For PBS News Student Reporting Labs, I'm Ebonie in Los Angeles.

AMNA NAWAZ: And, remember, there's always a lot more online, including a look at the growing pressure for Congress to revive payments to Americans who are exposed to radiation left over from government nuclear testing.

That is at PBS.org/NewsHour.

GEOFF BENNETT: And that's the "News Hour" for tonight.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I'm Amna Nawaz.

On behalf of the entire "News Hour" team, thank you for joining us.