we are kicking off a new month, and it is down to the wire time at the state capitol.

Some bills are skating toward the governor's desk.

Others are falling short.

The insiders are here to unpack it all as we launch into May.

So let's get going with this week's Colorado Inside Out.

Hi, everyone.

Let me get right to introducing you to this week's insider panel.

We have Patti Calhoun, founder and editor of Westword.

Eric Saunderson, columnist with Colorado Politics and the Denver and Colorado Springs Gazette.

Tyrone Glover, criminal defense and civil rights attorney here in Denver.

And Ed Silver, vice president of strategic initiatives at the Colorado Chamber of Commerce and editor of the Sum and Substance.

Political violence surface again this past week when a gunman breached security at the white House Correspondents Dinner in D.C.. Here in Colorado, though lawmakers had introduced a last minute bill just days earlier that would expand protection for elected officials, staff and judicial employees.

Now, there's no real indication yet to how much this extra security would cost as a state faces budget cuts this year, especially Patty, this is all unfolding in a pretty charged environment.

It is one of the interesting things about Colorado.

Bill is also looking at how to blank information about where someone lives.

So you would feel a little more protected protected, but I was at a journalism dinner in Denver where you hear about shots are outside the journalism dinner, and I'm like, I hope that Denver and as it turned out, it was D.C.. And the irony this is the same hotel that was supposed to be made so secure after JFK's assassination.

And it's where Ronald Reagan was shot in 1981 by John Hinckley, who was who had lived in Denver, Colorado.

So those who were looking at nostalgia said, you know, after 40 plus years, some things still cannot be made completely safe.

And you can see they're going to be working on it again and there going to be new rules again.

But it was a lot of deja vu.

Eric well my first reaction at seeing the news last Saturday night was why do we have all the leadership of the government in one place with both the president and vice president sitting at the head table, not all that far apart That makes no sense to me.

Yes, it was a frightful scene.

Thankfully not much came of it.

The whole dinner itself, which I know is not the subject of this question, is an anachronism to me.

I mean, it is sort of Oscars week for journalism nerds.

I just don't know that you need that degree of excess in the journalism industry.

I don't know that you do need that degree of coziness between journalists and any presidential administration, particularly this presidential administration, and to, you know, to have an event talking about the First Amendment with a president, i.e., this president who has been so hostile to the First Amendment and threatened violence against reporters and all the rest, struck me as an anachronism.

And if someone wanted to put this event out of its misery, that would be fine with me.

And and of course, Colorado's reaction with HB 1422.

Is coming.

And, I think that certainly doing something about this at the legislative level is certainly warranted.

I do have some concerns with this bill.

I mean, 60 pages, no fiscal note.

It definitely deserves more public conversation.

And we just want to make sure we're not creating more issues and trying to address this rise in violence.

I have concerns about there being potential access to justice issues here.

Really the, the costs associated with all this would be passed down to the users of the court system.

We're talking a crime victims, civil rights plaintiffs, eviction defendants.

And folks, even in our family law courts, which, I, I think last I checked, is like 70% of the folks who are appearing in domestic court are pro se.

This would up and that means self represented.

That would up the amount, that they would have to pay just to get justice there.

So I have a real access to justice issues there.

And then also the expansion of criminal liability to include everyone in the judiciary, not just judges and the clerks of the more, you know, face forward people, but literally everyone.

So there's, I think, just, concerns about expanded criminal liability and, you know, even First Amendment as well.

All right.

To this point, I think it's very important to talk about safety for legislators.

But I also is we talk about this.

It reminds me that in 2023, two members of the majority party resigned, not because of external threats, but because they felt the atmosphere in the legislature was so caustic that they couldn't continue for their mental health sake, serving as legislators.

And I think it's a good thing to remind people of, especially as we're coming up on another primary season.

One of the reasons things have gotten a little bit better, at the legislature is in the 2024 primary, Democratic voters said, hey, we are not going to send back some of the most caustic people that are over there.

Well, 2026 is a lot of really big gaps between candidates on the ballot.

And so it's important that people go out and look at that and say, who is going to talk with civility?

We, as the chamber began endorsing people in 2022, and a lot of it was about, you know, not entirely where you stand, but who is going to talk through things with the other side of the aisle, who is going to talk with civility?

I think the more that we have people who are civil in the legislature, I think it may actually cool down the temperatures and reduce the external threats as well.

Okay.

We hope for that.

All right.

What else are you guys keeping your eyes on?

Because we have what, I don't know, a handful of days and some change before the end of the session.

The legislature has approved a budget, but still, there's a lot still to be done.

Eric, before the second Wednesday of May.

Well, the first thing I'm looking at at the legislature right now is exactly what you reference.

It's the clock.

The clock is ticking down.

I think Ed probably follows it most closely at this table and we'll have the exact number, but I think we're down to single digit number of days, maybe.

And maybe a few more if they're working on a weekend in there.

But we're getting to the end of this session.

That's when the sausage tends to get made.

Is, in an ugly process.

At the end of the session.

the clock is number one on my list.

Number two on my list would probably be Senate Bill 135, which is the, Tabor issue that the Democrats want to put before voters to refer to voters.

In November.

That has, you know, lots of ramifications and not exactly full disclosure, full truth and advertising as to what's in it.

That's a high, high issue as well.

Okay.

All right.

Taryn.

Yeah.

It always feels like I'm watching the clock as well.

You know, the end of this session feels like a knife fight in the phone booth.

And at the specifically, what I'm looking at as a civil rights and criminal defense lawyer is this $10.2 million footnote, for the Kenyan city correctional officer hiring less, Non-secure i.t hiring staff and other roles.

Our criminal justice system, specifically, our incarceration institutions is expanding and we can, I think, debates for the reasons for that.

But the reality is it's, you know, where our correctional institutes are at capacity.

And with that capacity comes the need for staffing and more resources.

We really got to make sure that we're taking care of these folks.

So with all of the budget concerns that we're currently dealing with, 13 of 20 agencies cut, and we still have this $10.2 million footnote.

I fear there may be, a crisis afoot with our incarceration institutions.

Okay.

All right.

And and to Eric's point, the legislature has to end at 11:59 p.m.

on May 13th.

But who's counting the bill that I think I'm really watching?

The closest here is one that's flying under the radar a little bit at Senate Bill 137 and is a bill, that's a big business community priority.

But it's also sponsored by the House speaker, the Senate president, and the minority leaders in both chambers.

It's a bill that would require more thorough and more frequent review of all state rules and regulations to make sure they're not outdated, to make sure they are actually effective in doing what they want to do, to make sure, frankly, that they're they're not putting more of a burden on people and businesses than they are creating a benefit for the state.

It's a fascinating bill, because as much as, organizations like mine talk about regulations, and we are the sixth most regulated state in the country.

And, we just did a study that found 98 businesses have either relocated out of state or expanded out of state, costing us some 13,000 jobs in large part because of regulations since 2019.

This takes it, with a real scalpel, not a machete.

It requires agencies to look at these issues, look at whether these rules are working, is they are not supposed to, and if they're not, bring them back and audit them or let's put them up for sunset review.

It's good governance.

As the House speaker said.

And I think it's something worth watching.

The one that has really attracted our readers, though, is the one that would now give you speeding tickets.

Buy a camera.

If you're going between 5 and 10 miles an hour over the speed limit, a camera would be able to send you speeding tickets.

You pay $40 unless it was your first violation.

If it's your second, you would have to pay and it's by camera.

That is what's driving our readers.

While the $5 5 to 5, if you're between 5 and 10 over.

Wow.

But there is also the other, camera bill that was off camera that also has been shut down.

Right.

That's dead now.

Yes, yes.

So, okay, I think the I think the speeding one might go through and it will change many of our lives.

All right.

It has been an eventful week for RTD.

Lawmakers have advanced a bill that would change how the board is structured.

While the current board approved funding tied to the governor's push for passenger rail service along the Front Range using existing freight lines, but it wasn't all forward movement.

Service was disrupted because of some stolen copper wiring this week, and RTD continues to face criticism from some of its riders, including riders with disabilities.

Tyrone, I'd like you to start here.

Yeah, I mean, you can't run trains fast track trains for Collins if you can't run a board meeting, right, I would, I just think that they need to focus on the basics on on the blocking and tackling.

I mean, come on y'all.

Like, let's let's just get fast tracks.

You know, finish I remember working on that as a young associate.

So I just really think, you know, they just need to get their own house in order.

Focus on on the basics.

Before moving on to some more of these ambitious projects and hopefully that's on the horizon.

Okay.

So I want to come to this, I think it's important to talk about the governance of RTD.

But it's the more that we spend time talking about that, that's less time we spend talking about the conditions of our roads.

And it just bears repeating some of the numbers.

That reason magazine, which comes up with a very highly respected study each year, found we are 42nd in the U.S in terms of the cost effectiveness and condition of our roads.

Number 45, in urban interstate pavement number 46 for our rural interstate pavement 39 for fatality rates in urban areas.

We have to talk about our main transportation system as much as we're talking about RTD.

And frankly, this kind of flew under the radar.

But on Wednesday of this week, the Senate Transportation and Energy Committee rejected one of Governor Polis nominees, the Colorado Transportation Commission, because he was so focused on transit, they felt not enough, focused on roads.

And to reject him, that has to be a bipartisan vote.

So, I think this this serves as a reminder.

Let's let's talk about roads, folks.

Or else all of the conversation will be around a ballot initiative that looks to raise funding for roads.

That's coming up in November.

Okay.

All right.

To play off Tyrone not only do they need to be able to run a board meeting, they need to be able to run a do good, feel good campaign.

So this year there was so much hullabaloo over excessive ride that they're cutting back some of the access for people with disabilities.

And then to celebrate the Americans with Disabilities Act, they've been putting up ramps on the busses with people who are disabled, including Caitlin Heffernan.

Not exactly a hard person to find.

She was a mayoral candidate in 2019.

She's the front person for wheelchairs, wheelchair sports camp, very cool hip hop hip hop band.

And she discovers, because a friend sees her likeness on the side of a bus.

RTD doesn't tell her she's the second person, at least, who's had that happen to them by RTD, which also didn't tell Wade Blank's family that they were going to name them the station at Civic Center after Wade blank, the late activist who did so much in 1978 during the gang of 19 to bring access to the disabled.

So come on, you're doing a feel good campaign.

Do it the right way.

So the one of the things in this bill is also to shrink the amount of board members to make it more, I don't know, succinct and functioning.

I think I've heard it described.

Would that help with something like that?

Maybe.

Maybe you assign someone to pay attention to different projects.

It's also your employees.

But you don't do a campaign like this without consulting with the community you're trying to celebrate.

Yeah.

I think this bill is called something about a transit improvement bill.

It has the word improvement in the title.

I think that's a misnomer.

I think it should be survival.

I mean, RTD, in some ways it's, it's been almost in the death spiral.

Ridership is so far down.

I mean, ridership is at about 40%, 40% down from the pre-pandemic levels.

Now, there are a number of reasons for that.

People aren't going to the offices much.

They're you can make, a lot of arguments for why that is the case, but nonetheless, it is the case.

And then as rates go, fares go up.

Obviously that depresses, ridership.

This is an organization.

Yes.

It needs a new governance structure.

So I hope the bill passes in that regard.

This is an organization in trouble, and maybe we ought to focus on getting RTD right before we go funding.

What's it called?

The Colorado Connector and other big, ambitious transit projects when this one is not functioning as it should?

Okay.

In 2020 form Colorado.

Enacted the Colorado Artificial Intelligence Act, one of the most comprehensive AI regulations in the country and also very controversial.

We've talked about it here many a times.

There's been significant pushback, including a lawsuit from Elon Musk's, AI company and a case that's now been backed by the Department of Justice.

The law was originally set to take place in February, then it was delayed to June.

Now who knows?

Ed, there's another version of this bill that is up for conversation.

Yes.

As we tape this, Senate Majority Leader Robert Rodriguez is putting the finishing touches on a bill that is, frankly, two years in the working right now.

And this bill is going to do a couple of important things.

One, if you remember, the original bill was considered so clunky and burdensome because it required really lengthy disclosures about all the problems that could come from your AI systems, that could really open you up to more liability.

And it also required an appeals process where anybody who who has an AI system rejects somebody like someone who doesn't interview someone for a job because they they have an AI system, sorting through resumes would have to go through an appeals process to get bogged them down forever.

So the bill is going to do four big things.

It's going to still require knows how the system works, but not as clunky as we did before.

It's still going to allow an appeals process, but it's got to be commercially reasonable.

So you can't just bog down somebody all the time with that.

It's going to require this is very important clearance.

Conspicuous.

Notice when an AI system makes a a consequential decision, like you're not getting this procedure covered by your insurance.

And it also says there's no private right of action, but people do have 90 days to cure a problem.

If it's pointed out now, this is two years of work that went into this by several committees, including a working group that met through the offseason at the governor's request.

All I can say is when this comes, it's going to be the best minds that have put, their thoughts into it.

And we'll be curious to see if that will satisfy the federal government, Elon Musk, etc.. But I know that it's something that satisfies a whole lot of groups that don't otherwise agree on things, such as AI governance, two years and the last week of the session or last couple weeks of the session May 13th.

But who's counting?

Who's all right?

Patty, that's the most worrisome thing, is that it's coming out so late that if there is discussion of it, will it go through?

Will it have another like the last bill?

Unintended consequences.

You really went through fast.

People didn't look at it that quickly.

The other thing to really realize is how much people AI's use is changing over the last two years, how people's responses to AI is changing over the last two years.

I know people who now do their grocery shopping list by AI, their vacation planning.

Nothing as horrible as Ed.

You'll agree.

Journalism by AI, which is still the worst possible thing we personally can imagine, but in two years it's changed a lot.

So I hope this is a little more flexible.

We need something and I think this could be it.

But will it stop?

Elon Musk I don't think so.

I really want to go back Kyle to the bill in 2024.

I'm all in favor of Colorado being a leader in many ways, a front runner, an early adopter, but I'm not sure the field of AI is one that really lends itself.

It is changing so fast.

I'm not sure it lends itself to Colorado necessarily being the first in class, the first out of the gate as we were in 2024, in passing this, this regulatory scheme, I think whether it is everything that that it's pointed out, it's happened in the ensuing 24 months, the court ruling that came down a week or two ago, plenty of other input it might say, you know, states maybe let somebody else be out in front, let somebody else experience the mistakes, learn lessons from other states instead of always being the first out of the gate and for the legal mind at the table.

Finish this off.

Yeah.

I mean, regardless of whether we should have been the first out of the gate, we are first out of the gate, and now we have a decision in front of, judge Chief Judge Dominico that could potentially set national policy, policy that should be set, I think, at the legislative level.

And so I think that's why it is really concerning that we have such short of time to get this right.

But when it comes to this AI stuff, it's time whether to regulate it.

In my opinion, it's how we're going to do it.

And, at the end of the day, algorithmic discrimination is real, and making sure that our civil rights laws and our constitutional laws extend to AI, you know, artificial intelligence as much as they do to human intelligence when they're making consequential decisions around things like housing, lending, employment.

We have to get it right.

We don't have very long to get it right.

But at the end of the day, I think we can do it without, you know, trampling on the Constitution, because I think the guardrails have been very well pointed out.

But I think not only, some decisions that are in the court systems, but also some guidance and some really brilliant minds that have been around the table for the last two years.

Trying to ultimately bring this all together isn't pretty logical.

We should be at the table.

I thought I'd just like I go with what he's saying right before we get to our highs and lows of the week, I've got a pop quiz, a lightning round.

The word is out that Denver is about to host and visitors and the Democratic National Committee to show off the city and its hopes of landing the national convention, the presidential convention here.

Okay, so name the spot if you are running the tour group, the first spot or the only spot, you would take somebody in Denver to show off, okay, it's a block.

You go from Union Station, which you have to see.

The renovation is so fabulous.

You go to the Oxford Hotel, go to the cruise room.

100 year old history, you know, designed after the Queen Mary Lounge.

Then all go to the men's room in the basement where they have the historic Victorian urinals, largest urinals in the world.

It's impossible not to feel important when you're standing in front of one.

Okay.

All right, Eric, I'll resist the temptation to go tongue in cheek with this.

If they're going to be in town next week, I'd go to, avalanche hockey game, the avalanche hosting either the wild or the stars.

And I'll watch the best team in hockey on the way to the Stanley Cup.

Okay.

Yeah, I'm pretty basic on this one, too, because I can still remember when I came to this city, gosh, 20 years ago.

And I fell in love.

So, yeah, I do Union Station.

Yeah.

Go check out a Avs game.

You go down to Civic Center Park and just sort of, take a look around, even see that the art museum.

I thought it was really cool when I learned that a certain percentage of the city's budget goes towards all this amazing public art, and then suddenly you realize that and all of this really amazing creative stuff pops up at you, and then I just pop up to the mountains, got, you know, red rocks.

I know it's not like technically in Denver, but one of the great things about being in the city is your proximity to nature and to the mountains and Red rocks is Denver Mountain Park.

That's true, that's true.

All right, Ned, heck, you want to convince the Democrats that they need to come here, take him to the Independence Institute institution, introduce them to John Caldera, say this guy pulls a lot of weight around here.

All of a sudden, they'll feel they have to be here now.

I love it all right now do.

Our highs and lows will start in a low point?

And we'll start with Patty, who would steal an art magazine.

Denver, which is a really great art magazine.

Started its quarterly, started three years ago.

I mean, it'll have its third anniversary in June.

Someone stole 4000 copies of a free art magazine out of a storage locker.

Fess up, give them back.

It's expensive, and they need it.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right, Eric, I'll go back to where we started with, the shooting that to correspond tonight's dinner last weekend.

In Washington.

The reaction to it on social media.

We have such a temptation now, such an urge that everyone runs to their political corner when an event like this happens and the conspiracy theories that immediately formed, I mean, on the left, that this was a staged event, it wasn't real.

It was completely staged on the right, that it was the media that had put the president in danger.

Give it a rest, folks.

I mean, a little there was a book, a long time ago, The Death of Common Sense.

I think we're living through that time.

Okay.

Tyrone, I dissent, I dissent, I dissent, said Justice Kagan in the recent call, a decision that essentially gutted, the Voting Rights Act, to which she said is all but dead letter.

So I just think that's, you know, far and above my, kind of bummer of the week, something that so many people, including, you know, my family and ancestors fought so hard for to essentially see, you know, not just a loophole, but a doorway for states to now just sort of kick down and walk through.

Okay.

And then one of the few things that I think everyone's legislature can agree on is that we need more housing in this state.

Yet the Senate just passed a bill, Senate Bill 93, that would require an unnecessary, burdensome, and duplicative process of proving that every contractor and subcontractor working on a project has to have workers comp insurance, which the law already requires.

They have.

This is going to be so burdensome, it's going to slow the housing supply.

Don't believe me?

Well, guess what the nonpartisan Legislative Council wrote in its fiscal note.

This bill will increase costs for local governments to conduct additional reviews of contractors prior to issuing licenses and permits, and to address any increase in complaints.

It may decrease municipal permit revenue and sales and use tax by limiting the ability to issue permits or discouraging applications for permits.

Let's figure out how we can get more housing built without doing things like this.

Okay.

All right.

Something good.

Patty, a salute to Lynn Bartels, our sometime colleague around this table.

She's in a real fight right now.

She said some one of the wisest things ever about covering politics, which is you have to cover it like sports.

And whether or not you pay attention to politics.

Almost everyone in this town does pay attention to sports and they pay attention to Lynn Bartels.

So we're thinking about you, Lynn.

Absolutely, we are right, Eric.

We are indeed thinking about human.

Bartels.

Well said.

Patty.

I wrote this week on the election in Hungary a couple of weeks ago, the ouster of Viktor Orban and what lessons that might hold for our country.

The most notable thing, about that whole thing, here's a Maga like, almost cult like figure in Orban.

And when he lost the election, what did he do?

He phoned his opponent to congratulate him.

And then he issued a statement of concession.

What a novel idea.

Okay.

All right.

Something good for you.

So the last time I was on, I was driven out about sort of our drought conditions and what the summer was going to look like.

So I'm stoked on all this kind of wet weather that we're having right now.

So getting some much needed precipitation and bring it on, keep it going.

Even if it snows.

We're all good.

So hopefully this can start to dig us out of this.

You know what was an impending crisis?

Knock on.

All right, just when you think there's an unbridgeable chasm in politics, please know that the Colorado Chamber and the Colorado Trial Lawyers Association just, worked on a bill that was introduced, that would attempt to keep non-lawyers from owning law firms in the state in a they try to keep out the private equity that is making lawsuits so expensive in some other states.

I won't go into the detail.

The bill.

You can check out some settings if you want to see it.

But but yeah, there's two groups I don't see a lot.

I, I working together.

This still can happen at the Capitol.

And is this tied to, like, some of those billboards for companies and some of those commercials we see for law firms that we've never heard about before is this we're talking about that is one way that law firms can enter states when they're technically not allowed to operate there, because they're OP and they're owned by non-lawyers.

So yes, that that there is a tie in there.

Okay.

All right.

So my hire of the week is really a reminder of something simple but powerful.

The value of actually stopping to talk with each other and listen to each other so we can really get to know one another.

I hope that you all have seen our insiders and the dual desk interviews.

They're up on our YouTube channel.

Check them out and soon will be adding a conversation I had with David Kopel from the Independence Institute.

Before the show, before the cameras were rolling, we were just talking, and, he mentioned how he was roommates with John F Kennedy Junior in college, and then he, quoted Jackie O. And I was like, wait, what?

David Kopel with John John, it is true, he said they were fraternity brothers, roommates, lawyers in the making.

At Brown.

We were talking about the recent mini series, and I mentioned how you probably didn't see it.

He's like, oh, yes, he was my friend.

I wish I were John John's roommate.

So, that is what it was.

What stuck with me this week.

Big time.

How the power of conversation is so real, how much we can learn when we actually listen to one another.

And then the image of David Kopel playing pickup football with John F Kennedy Junior back in the day.

Thank you, insiders, for joining us this week.

And thanks everybody who is watching or listening to our podcast.

So appreciate it.

I'm Kyle Dyer I will see you next week here on PBS 12.

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