As we get ready to kick off June, we are turning a corner.

The weather will finally feel summer-like and we will finally have some closure on this year's legislative session.

And that the governor has just days left to decide the future of Bill is that lawmakers pass, and with June, there will be big rulings coming down from the U.S. Supreme Court.

But before we get ahead of ourselves, all that, we have other lawsuits and state concerns to bring up on this week's Colorado Inside Out Hello, everyone.

I'm Kyle Dyer.

Let me get right to introducing you to this week's insider panel.

We have Patty Calhoun, founder and editor of Westword, David Kopel, research director at the Independence Institute, Eric Sondermann, columnist for Colorado Politics and the Denver and Colorado Springs Gazette.

And Kristi Burton Brown, the executive vice president at Advanced Colorado and former chair of the Colorado Republican Party.

No surprise after the last many weeks that May is Colorado's rainiest month.

So far this year, we've had more than six inches of precipitation in Denver, and more than half of that has come in during the month of May.

But still, after all the recent precipitation in parts of our state are dealing with drought conditions, the snowpack is below normal because of all of the melting that happened in April, when it was so warm and so summer water, so supplies in Colorado are not looking that great.

And then, Patty, we're hearing that's going to be a hot and dry summer.

So you worry about the wildfires.

And it's very dicey what we're hearing.

We are going to have everything this summer.

Isn't it going to be fun?

We've had the rain.

I have a flooded basement.

I'm sure many people watching also do.

We're going to have mosquitoes because of the flow of the water and the standing pools of water for at least the next five minutes, which means we'll have more West Nile.

Then of course it will get dry.

So we will have wildfires.

And what we're looking at is a federal government that is perhaps not prepared to step in and help in times of crisis, not just in Colorado but across the country.

With the current upset at FEMA.

So we are not looking at a really good time ahead.

All we can say is we do need the water.

Everything that's landed has been great and we get it.

Do over this weekend for Memorial Day with the opening of the 16th Street and Outside Festival, so we can pretend last weekend never existed.

Pretend that this weekend is Memorial Day weekend.

Exactly.

and the Colorado delegation, some of the members have written to to Kristi Noem asking for please don't defund FEMA.

We may need help this summer.

She has not exactly been quick to respond to them.

Kristi Noem has other things to worry about, like dogs and her hair.

But I'm sure at some point when the West is on fire, maybe the feds will notice.

Okay, all right.

David.

FEMA hasn't exactly done a great job historically.

You can look at their horrible response to Hurricane Helene for our problems in Colorado, part of them are solvable by just California starting to act with some common sense.

The Colorado River water is desired, divided by a 1922 multi-state compact that was ratified by Congress.

So it's the law of the land.

California has for decades been taking more than its allotted share.

And it's ridiculous that they do, because that means there's less water for Colorado and the other upper basin states.

What we need to do in Colorado, the minimal steps, is get away from the long standing policy of treating forests like museums, where if there's a small fire, you always go and suppress it, and you don't do a sufficient amount of logging and harvesting.

So between the invasive tamarisk and the native trees, our forests are now so thick that that's the main reason why water flows from Colorado, the mountains, into the Colorado River have been declining because our over vegetated forests are soaking up more and more of the water.

Okay.

All right, Eric.

I actually just came to this taping having that coffee earlier this morning, with Alan Salazar, who runs Denver Water, and we were talking about many things, but certainly we touched on this and the as he and other experts point out, every drop of water is to be treasured and valued, but it takes time to recoup supply and, a year ago, Colorado did its reservoirs did fill up, significantly, but it's sort of a two year window to really get them back to capacity.

And much of the state remains in drought conditions.

And as Patty points out, drought has its consequences.

And it's not just for agriculture.

It is, also for firefighting, and many other components that go with, living in the West in a time of increasing heat and climate change.

And.

Christy.

So I think when we look at Colorado's water situation, it's such a crucial element of life here in Colorado.

But it being proactive about how we handle our forests is something I wish more people would talk about.

And David kind of mentioned it, but we should be logging.

We should be clearing out our forest.

We should be doing things to prevent these wildfires.

I think when we look at FEMA, I am a big fan of reforming a lot, of a lot of agencies that have gone the wrong way, that have over the years been incompetent, a lot of waste, even some fraud sometimes in these agencies.

And so I don't really think the answer is shutting down FEMA.

Like we're not only individual states, we're also an entire nation.

And we do need to rely on national help sometimes or in neighboring states when we encounter emergencies and disasters.

But does FEMA need to be reformed?

Absolutely, 100%.

And the last thing I draw attention to is we can help ourselves here in Colorado by some local efforts as well.

Douglas County kind of highlighted this.

This last week, they allocated $1.5 million to buy a helicopter that will aid in fighting fires across the state.

The commissioners approved that in the budget, and I think actions like that can also help ourselves when the federal government may or may not be there in the future.

Okay.

All right.

three Colorado radio stations have joined National Public Radio in a lawsuit over the Trump administration's order to cut federal funding from the broadcasting company.

Now, NPR, Colorado Public Radio, Aspen Public Radio and KSU Public Radio claimed that this order is a violation of free speech rights and an attempt to undo Congress's power of allocating of federal funds.

Now, it's not entirely clear why these three stations are involved in the lawsuit and at the hears.

No other stations in the country at this point have joined the suit.

But the joint press release does point out how these three Colorado stations do reflect the diversity of public radio across the country.

David, I will start with you on this.

Well, the lead lawyer on the lawsuit is Miguel Estrada, who was, who a one of the leading conservative lawyers in Washington, DC It's a well written complaint.

they are strongest when they're saying money that's already been appropriated by Congress.

You can't suddenly stop that.

One thing they don't talk about in their complaint, which they sort of implicitly concede is therefore legal, is the part of the order that says and knpr, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting stopped discriminating illegally on the basis of race and sex.

And that kind of discrimination is pervasive at National Public Radio.

The stations themselves have gone drastically downhill in the last ten years, only 30% of the audience thinks that they are unbiased.

their audience is approximately 87% Democrat.

So they are narrow casting.

Despite all their claims about the population of the communities they serve.

They're all they're doing is reinforce what people already want to think.

We could save money by just giving everyone a free subscription to the nation.

No, I don't listen to KSAT because I live here in Denver.

But you say they're going downhill.

They say Colorado Public Radio.

Oh, okay.

All right.

But KSAT just won a whole bunch of awards recently here in Denver at the Color Broadcast Association.

So there is still journalism taking place.

And good for them for their local reporting.

But Colorado Public Radio is a much, much worse organization than it was 10 or 20 years ago Well, I think there are certainly legitimate issues that are raised both in this lawsuit and in the bigger, broader discussion of whether government should fund public broadcasting.

I'm not going to sit here on a public television show and bang too hard on public radio as a concept.

I do think, net net, our country is better off for having public television and public radio.

There is a lack of viewpoint diversity.

and I think anyone has room to do better.

I'm sitting on this panel between two attorneys, and I will let them weigh in more on the legal merits, or lack thereof, of this particular case for me.

I have a hard time seeing this be a free speech issue necessarily.

No one is denying free speech.

It's a question of who who is paying for that speech.

At least that is my my take on the issue.

Christine may have, a different thought, but, net net, I hope we still continue public television on shows like this and public radio, because I do think the country is richer for it, and problems not withstanding.

Okay.

All right.

Christine.

Yeah.

And to Eric's point, I would agree this isn't really an issue of the First Amendment.

But when you look at the First Amendment, both sides are claiming they're both claiming viewpoint discrimination.

In a way, the, National Public Radio and other stations are basically saying, you're shutting off our funding because you don't like our viewpoints.

The battle government is saying, well, when the government is funding public radio, we can't discriminate against viewpoints that aren't being shared and in fact are being suppressed.

And so you actually see, like, you see a lot of personal issues come up.

I really don't think it's core to the case.

I think the the money allocation piece is really at the heart of the case.

But for the broader discussion, I'd say we've we've potentially moved past the point of the government needing to fund public TV.

Public radio is absolutely necessary when it began, but other media can be created.

Today we see that with other successful media stations and at what point if the government funds it, does the government start to control it?

So would anyone opposing this want, you know, President Trump, instead of saying, I'm going to cut your funding to say, I'll cut your funding unless you follow these guidelines, unless you report in this way, that's the next step of what could happen.

I think it's better for government to cut the strings and let journalism be independent as a whole.

So let's talk about journalism in general and media outlets in general, which is it's a perilous time for all of them.

The advertising world has changed so much.

So even just aside from the content right now, you think 5%, 10%, which is the range for most of those stations that could lose public funding, that might not sound like much, but it could be a couple reporters.

It could be the people who are out covering the community that otherwise doesn't get covered.

So we have to think of those kinds of losses.

I agree that this is less a free speech issue.

It is going to go to Congress.

And even if congressional allocation remains for this year, in the future, you could see Congress would deal with it in a different way.

So we are looking for long term funding.

Will it be there for these stations?

But who is it therefore now?

I mean, every media outlet you see broad network broadcasting way down.

Independent broadcasting is down.

I would say everyone should be supporting the media outlets you like, whether they're public or private.

And I do want to say one great thing about how smart Sesame Street was, that they worked out a deal with Netflix that will help them stay going, and it is just a time media has to get smarter and smarter about its own future.

Yeah, you're right, all right.

Denver Public Schools is defending its decades old financing tactic that kept the district from having to ask voters for the okay to take on debt, something that is required by the state's constitution.

I'm sure David will give us some details on that.

but over the years, the district has taken on hundreds of millions of dollars in long term debt.

And now, parent advocacy group, advocacy group is suing.

Eric, let's start with you.

You talk about DPS a lot and insists that it is doing everything that other businesses do.

And this is okay.

Well, I guess we'll see.

Well, this lawsuit, will be interesting in how it plays out.

These the financial instrument is called a cop cop for certificate of participation.

It is basically of different form of a bond, but not a bond that requires a public vote under Tabor requirements and other requirements.

DPS has approximately as much debt through these certificates of participation as it does through voter approved debt.

but, through various bond issues.

in a way, the district has created this subsidiary corporation that it has sold a lot of the school properties, too.

So if there was ever to be a default on debt, and DPS insists that there will never be a default, but if there was ever to be a default on debt, the district would no longer own a good number of its facilities.

There is much that this district has to explain an apology for on this one.

we will see what the courts say, but credit to the Gazette for surfacing a very important issue.

Chris, your thoughts on this.

So I would say that DPS has somewhat of a history of trying to get around state law, whether or not they're finding some very narrow loophole or whether their actions are like flying in the face of state law.

I think that will be be determined eventually by a court.

I think part of the problem is voters don't trust you when they're supposed to be asked for a bond.

This has every look of a bond.

Yes, corporations do this absolutely.

But you're a school district.

You're not a corporation.

You are funded by taxpayers.

And so your behavior should be different.

it's not the current administration that that did all of this in DPS.

It's a long standing problem, but it really needs to get solved.

So I also am glad it got brought to light and that there is a lawsuit going on.

A voter should be treated with respect that they deserve.

And that article had so many details.

I mean, I've read it multiple times.

I'm curious, as a member of the Board of Education for the state to elected, but your volunteer position, is this something that should the state board should be involved with in terms of the way they're doing the financing for DPS.

Is a great question, Kyle, but we actually can't get involved in that.

Another provision in the state constitution is local control.

So how districts fund their buildings when they go to voters, when they don't isn't anything we ever say over at all.

It's something voters in the district have to hold them accountable for.

Okay.

All right.

Patty, certificates of participation.

It's interesting because it sounds like the little medals you get at a field day.

Everybody who participates gets one.

And you kind of see that with the DPS right now it's like everybody's been doing this.

We can do it too.

We don't really.

It's not that it was a secret, it was just something people didn't pay attention to out in the public sphere.

I mean, it dates back to the days of Bennett and before, so we might see it come up in the governor's race as an issue, but it plays into how conveniently DPS has played things.

So they didn't have, the vote, you know, they waited for the bond vote before they started to talk about school closures, for example, last November.

And school closures are coming back up again.

You've got the investigation into the DPS, board member by people who think he's discriminating against others.

It's just not a pretty place over there right now.

So the more transparency the more access we have, the better, because otherwise we're going to think that everything is sneaky and that we are just getting a certificate of participation.

But we're not getting education for the kids.

All right, David.

Well, it's totally illegal based on what our state constitution says, because it says government debt, including local governments for public buildings, can be no longer than for a 15 year time, and it has to be approved by the voters.

If we just obeyed the actual text of our Constitution, we'd be a lot better off.

But even with how much of the Constitution the court has destroyed, even there what DPS has been doing, maybe going beyond that in terms of the sleaze level and, and, concealment from the public.

And so, by the way, when you walk onto one of these nice campuses of our, Denver public high schools, remember, they're not owned by the Denver Public Schools.

They are owned by this sham corporation called the Denver Schools Facilities Leasing Corporation, which, by the way, according to the Secretary of State is delinquent, has been delinquent since June 1st, 2023.

So with all this scam running around, they can't even bother to keep up the corporate registration of their shell corporation.

Wow.

Okay, all right, let's move on.

The plans are out for the Colorado 150 pedestrian walkway that is set to take people on a winding path from the state capitol over Lincoln and into Veterans Park here in Denver.

the governor loves the idea.

Thinks it will be the perfect addition for Colorado when it celebrates his 150th year next year.

the idea of the winding is, is to represent Colorado's twisty rivers.

Regional materials like sands with a marble be included.

And also Colorado artists will have some of their pieces featured.

private and public partnership.

We are hearing in terms of the money being raised.

But Christy, the reaction to these drawings over the last week has not been very welcome.

I think for the organizers behind all this.

I don't think so.

And I think part of the problem is because we are talking about Denver, it's not necessarily at the art isn't beautiful.

It's not that it might not be a nice bridge if it were somewhere else.

When you think about going to Denver, people think about they want more parking, they don't want more places to walk.

it's in the past, I believe, $20 million.

It's already been 1.5 million, I think, to design this bridge just to make the plans.

But I could think of a whole lot more things that $20 million could do in Denver that would actually benefit the people who live there, been the small benefit, the small business owners and benefit businesses, who are trying to attract more people to come into Denver.

Part of the issue is when I take my kids to Denver, this is just, you know, an anecdote myself.

They want to get in the capital, in the building as soon as possible.

They're not wanting to meander around the streets of Denver.

It doesn't seem safe if Denver can't get their safety issues and the crime crack down on, and make it a welcoming place for businesses to operate and people to come, this bridge isn't going to matter.

So I think that's the real issue, not the bridge itself.

So I talked with one woman who is part of that outreach program to get people to buy into this idea, and she says that the state capitol is not really classroom conducive, and that the goal is to have a greater user experience that allows classrooms and family groups and all people to enjoy the area.

And you don't have to cross over Lincoln at the traffic light.

You don't buy it.

As a mom.

I don't know if I read it right.

It dumps you out right by Colfax.

A lot of problems with taking your kids to the corner of Colfax, right by the Capitol.

there's so many problems with this.

And on top of that, it just is ridiculous looking.

Unless it became a water slide.

In which case, I'm sure your kids would love it.

this is a National Historic Landmark civic center park.

So not only does Historic Denver have issues with this, how it's designed around a historic area.

So we have to have a landmark approval in the city of Denver.

We could have a national problem because the historic area goes all the way to Grant.

And unless they really take a circuitous route on this bridge, like up, up, around three blocks, they're going to run into a problem with the historic designation.

The other thing is, if we want people to enjoy downtown, let's let them walk downtown.

Let's fix up the problems.

Instead, we're going to have this slippery slope all the way to Civic Center Park, which, oops, is going to be closed in 2026 for a renovation.

So why don't we postpone that renovation?

Why don't we blow up the bridge and get on with cleaning up that corner?

Okay, David, your thoughts on this?

I'm curious.

A nice pedestrian bridge.

A bridge over Lincoln and a bridge over Broadway for pedestrians would be fine.

That could be simple and done.

Much less cost than this extravagant, ridiculous thing that Patti was talking about.

Historic landmark designations.

That means future construction has to be consistent with the existing landmark, which is in the Civic Center complex is called Beaux Art, and this river bridge is not even close to that.

So my backup hope is that in the worst case that our two other iconic art landmarks that the big blue bear and blue suit for the Demon Horse from Dia will come and rescue us and tear up the bridge.

Okay.

All right.

Eric, your thoughts on this?

I'll give the governor credit for at least surfacing an idea and surfacing the issue.

Or more importantly, for identifying the problem.

I don't give him credit for the solution or the proposal he's come up with.

if you visit a whole lot of other state capitals around the country, and I don't pretend to make that a hobby or anything, but I've been to a few, and they tend to be these gems of an area.

they are tourist draws.

They are the finest that that city has to offer.

That is certainly not the case at Colfax and Lincoln or Colfax and Broadway.

The problem is that you got to do something about that area.

It needs a beautification.

It needs a clean up.

It needs to be more than parking lots and drug deals, which seems to be what it is at the moment.

I don't think a bridge or winding river bridge or whatever you want to call it necessarily solves that problem.

Let's go down the line now and talk about some of the highs and lows of this past week, starting on a low note so we can enter a happy note.

Patti, I'll start with you.

Something disappointing flow.

So sad that the rain didn't rain out most Rockies games.

If you looked at the Athletic yesterday, we are now the worst team in the entire country and they tried to throw a bone to the fans as the most valuable player because who else but Colorado fans would put up with the performance by the Rockies?

Well, dealing with something that's a long running disgrace, but doing something about it, a Colorado, athletic manufacturing company, x y Athletics, which makes athletic clothing for women and for men.

And unlike, its larger competitors like Nike and Adidas, does not support mediocre males playing in women's sports.

And they do a lot of their advertising in opposition to that, they brought a First Amendment lawsuit, which quite plainly says that the new Colorado bill against, saying the truth is a violation of the First Amendment.

a legitimate viewpoint that that cannot be censored by the government of Colorado, which wants to make only one type of thought about this issue permissible in public spaces.

I'm going to play off a patty.

Patty mentions the Rockies.

And, obviously this season has been a disaster in the last several seasons haven't been much better.

But Let Me make Disgrace might be a little strong, but the ultimate culpability here lies in all of those of us who buy tickets.

until the fans of this city and I put myself in that category, stand up and say, we're not paying.

We're not walking through those turnstiles.

We're not buying your beer.

We are staying away.

Nothing is going to change.

So I you know that the Rockies should do, in my opinion, my daughter go to their games every time she goes.

They win.

Now clearly she doesn't go to them, but, the little I'd pick is in Denver, I think Mayor Johnson, how he's been handling the situation and blaming Trump and saying, oh, it's Trump's fault.

Denver's revenue is falling.

It just doesn't make sense.

If you look at cities across the nation, I think the mayor needs to take more responsibility for revenue being driven out of his own city.

That's I think that's disgraceful to blame it on someone else when it's your your job.

Okay.

All right.

Something good.

Downtown is not mad Max territory.

Let me say, walking from my office, which is at 13th and Lincoln over to the old Denver Post building, walk through Veterans Park, walked through Civic Center.

Park, walked over to the art museum.

Everything looks great.

It is true.

There are a few, denizens hanging out there who are friendly but perhaps offputting to many people.

But go out there this weekend, see downtown for yourself.

Go to the Outside Festival, which is in the Civic Center park.

Go along 16th Street, see what downtown really is, and then make decisions.

Okay.

All right.

David, it.

Appears that some Senate, U.S. Senate Republicans such as Rick Scott of Florida, are growing a spine against, the ridiculous, budget reconciliation bill that narrowly passed the House.

And as they rightly point out, this is a bill that will further grow the the already unacceptably high federal deficit.

And that it doesn't does not cut spending nearly enough.

And many of the cuts are what everything knows is phony.

Because there are things that say on this ten year plan, I will start doing cuts in year five.

If you want to do cuts, do them right now in either one.

Okay.

Yeah.

We're often critical of Governor Polis around this table.

And we had our fun with him, about his winding river and bridge and whatever.

but let me, at least give the governor credit where it's deserved.

Which is he brought out his veto pen more than once this year.

Certainly there might have been other occasions to bring it out, but he brought it out on, a few big bills, including the labor Peace Act revision that he had made clear early on was not going to pass his inspection if it did not represent some kind of acceptable compromise to both business and labor.

and then again, on a bill that had targeted an unworkable way, rideshare companies Uber and Lyft.

So congrats to the governor for exercising that right hand and vetoing some bills.

Okay, Christie.

So I bring up another bill in this session, the prop 130 implementation bill, prop 130, was what voters passed last year to give $350 million to law enforcement out of the general fund.

No new taxes.

Tell the legislature that's how they have to spend money.

And so this implementation bill took a lot of work.

a lot of people worked to make sure it got done right.

And so what it's going to do is give $35 million a year to law enforcement across the state.

It'll take ten years to implement voters well, but I think it'll also make it something that people count on more money for law enforcement is a good thing to be counted on.

So I think that was really well done, even though it took a lot of time work.

Okay.

All right.

Thanks.

My hi.

Is that it's good to be back here at the table after a few weeks off spent back east with family.

Have a college graduate now.

Thanks so much for Alton Dillard again for filling in here and holding down the fort.

and thanks to kudos to this week's panel.

You guys did a wonderful job.

Thanks for being so informed and keeping me getting me both back into the Colorado, news and happenings.

thanks for you all for watching, fighting or listening to our podcast.

I, I'm Kyle Dyer, I will see you here next week on PBS 12.

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