AMNA NAWAZ: The Trump administration has threatened to pull federal funding from K-12 schools and universities that consider race in any way.

The Education Department argues the Supreme Court's ruling outlawing race and college admissions applies much more broadly, including -- quote -- "using race in decisions pertaining to admissions, hiring, promotion, compensation, financial aid, scholarships, prizes, administrative support, discipline, housing, graduation ceremonies, and all other aspects."

The deadline for schools to comply is tomorrow.

All of this is sparking confusion and legal challenges.

For a look now as part of our ongoing series Race Matters, I'm joined by Angel Perez, CEO of the National Association for College Admission Counseling, and David Law, superintendent of the Minnetonka School District in Minnesota and the incoming president of the School Superintendents Association.

Welcome to you both, and thanks for being with us.

Angel, I want to start with you, because based on the guidance the administration has sent out, is it clear to you what compliance looks like?

What does it mean to meet this deadline tomorrow?

ANGEL PEREZ, CEO, National Association for College Admission Counseling: Well, therein lies the challenge.

It's not clear.

The dear colleague letter was pretty evasive, and so colleges and universities have been really struggling, what does this mean?

So, for example, maybe some of the things that they might consider is eliminating student clubs and organizations that are race-based.

That might seem a little bit obvious.

But what's not obvious, is diversity is embedded into everything on college campus.

So, does that mean we can no longer have women's centers?

Does that mean we stop our disability services?

Does that mean that Hillel organizations for Jewish students should not exist?

And so it's incredibly confusing, and an incredible amount of anxiety is taking place right now.

AMNA NAWAZ: David Law, you get this letter from the Department of Education, and what do you think?

I mean, how is your district navigating this guidance right now?

DAVID LAW, Superintendent, Minnetonka, Minnesota, Public Schools: Well, the nicest thing about the public education across our country is that it is a guaranteed right.

So, race-based admission criteria is irrelevant to us.

Everyone who wants to come to public school or everyone of school age will come.

For the other items, there's a lot of confusion because we started out President Trump's term saying he was pushing a lot of the decisions for education back to the state.

And our state has very clear laws with the Minnesota Human Rights Act that protects the rights of students within our system and identifies the kinds of things that we should be looking for.

So, clarity is key.

There's a conflict between what our attorney general and our state legislation has happened and this executive order.

And superintendents are, like our post-secondary partners, scratching our heads saying, well, which guidance do we follow and what does this mean?

And specifically in terms of hiring, we're hiring the best candidate no matter what.

And I'd be happy to share some data on that too.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, Angel, we know the American Federation of Teachers have filed a lawsuit.

My colleague Courtney Norris spoke with them and they say they don't expect any significant movement on that lawsuit before this deadline.

So what are you seeing now?

Is there sort of like a wait-and-see approach or are colleges actively working to try to comply in some way with guidance that isn't necessarily very clear?

ANGEL PEREZ: It's actually a little bit of everything.

There are some institutions that are working to eliminate programming.

Some institutions are actually scrubbing their Web sites around DEI programs.

But then there's a lot of wait-and-see.

I have also spoken to some college presidents who are saying we will not change anything until we absolutely have to.

And so it's a mix.

AMNA NAWAZ: What about you, David?

What are you hearing from other superintendents?

How are they navigating the moment and are they rushing to put changes into play?

DAVID LAW: I don't think rushing to put changes into place is a good description.

I think specifically in Minnesota and across the country we're getting guidance about the executive orders as they come out through the Department of Education, and we're taking that guidance to our local state associations or state commissioners of education and legal counsel for our school districts to say, what applies to us?

It's a -- we don't think we're doing harm to our students.

We think we're doing -- and certainly in our staffing process we're just trying to fill open jobs.

So what we think we're doing is great work to support the public education of our students across the country.

And when there's something clear that's in violation, I think we will come back and revisit it.

But, right now, we're just looking for clarity about what does this mean in a time when we're committed to meeting the needs of our students.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, David, there was a part of the Department of Education letter I want to pull out and get your reaction to, because this was, again, sent to K-12 schools and university.

It's outlining the Trump administration's policy.

And this one part read -- quote - - "DEI programs, for example, frequently preference certain racial groups and teach students that certain racial groups bear unique moral burdens that others do not.

Such programs stigmatize students who belong to particular racial groups based on crude racial stereotypes."

The word certain there David is doing a lot of work.

I just want to get your reaction to that and what that means to you.

DAVID LAW: Well, across the country, our state set aside standards that are required to be covered within our classrooms, and we anchor our materials on those state standards.

And so there -- we have an obligation to our state to be instructing our students on what those state standards are, but we're certainly not trying to be divisive within our classroom.

We're -- the likeliest spot where that would happen would be in the history of our country and things that have happened.

Certainly not everything that's happened in our country are things that we're proud of, but we're not trying to divide our community through that process.

We're about informing our students so that they can become critical consumers of information.

So my colleagues across the state or across the country would say, the things we're teaching in our classroom are - - have been identified by our communities in our state as what our students need to know to be successful for the future.

So that word certain, it implies a lot, but we have all -- there's this long history of how we have defined what students need to know.

And we are obligated to be instructing our students about what our state determines to be critical.

AMNA NAWAZ: Angel, the threat here is that federal funding could get pulled.

What kind of impact could that have on schools and universities?

ANGEL PEREZ: That would be devastating.

The reality is, the majority of colleges and universities can't function or operate without federal funding.

But I think it would be devastating.

If you take it away, students are the ones who are actually going to suffer the most.

And I'd like to connect a few dots here that the reality is we actually have a demographic cliff that we're facing in this country.

There's actually starting this year fewer students in the pipeline to higher education, just fewer high school age students.

And the majority of students are actually going to be students of color, the largest, multiracial students, and then Hispanic, Latinx students.

And so if we don't figure out a way how to support, cultivate, retain them, we won't have a future work force.

We actually are going to have to do this through an economic imperative.

So it would be devastating for institutions, but for students and the future of our nation.

AMNA NAWAZ: I have got about a minute or so left, Angel, but regardless of how the legal challenges here play out, has this guidance already had some kind of an impact that will be hard for schools and universities to shake?

ANGEL PEREZ: Absolutely, yes.

And I think the other impact that we're not talking about is the psychological effect on students who are currently applying to college.

High school counselors are telling me that many of their students feel like colleges don't want them, or when they hear this news, they don't even want to go through the process anymore.

And so, again, this could be devastating, given that we already have fewer students in the pipeline to higher ed.

AMNA NAWAZ: Angel Perez from the National Association for College Admission Counseling, and David Law, the incoming president of the School Superintendents Association, my thanks to you both.

Appreciate your time.

ANGEL PEREZ: Thank you.

DAVID LAW: Thank you, Amna.