President Trump is days away from delivering# his State of the Union address, and his speech## comes at a moment of deep division, challenges# to core elements of his agenda, friction with## allies abroad, and questions about the balance of# power here in Washington.

Joining me tonight to## discuss this and more, Peter Baker is chief White# House correspondent for the New York Times.

Eugene## Daniels is a senior Washington correspondent# and a co-anchor of The Weekend at MS Now.

Lisa## Dejardan is the congressional correspondent for# PBS NewsHour and Susan Glasser is staff writer at## the New Yorker.

Thank you all so much for joining# me.

So, the Supreme Court uh dealt a major blow to## President Trump's economic agenda today, striking# down the broad global tariffs that he imposed## through this uh authority that's known as the# International Emergency Economic Powers Act.

this## um the Supreme Court held that the president# lacked authority to levy sweeping tariffs## without explicit congressional approval.

Peter,# the president came out to the podium today and## tried to respond to the Supreme Court's uh Supreme# Court's decision.

How did that play out?

Yeah,## he took it graciously, of course.

Uh he attacked# the Supreme Court justices and said that they were## uh unpatriotic.

uh that they should be ashamed of# themselves, their their parents should be ashamed,## their family should be ashamed of them,# that they had been influenced by foreign## uh interests.

Uh it's the kind of# reaction we shouldn't be surprised by,## but not the kind of reaction we normally see from# a president toward a Supreme Court ruling.

Uh and## it's it's it's just it's he sees the Supreme# Court as a political body.

He doesn't see it## as a judicial body in that sense.

They're supposed# to rule for me because I appointed them.

He gives## that impression about the three justices he put# on there.

Uh two of whom went against him today,## Amy Coney Barrett and Neil Gorsuch.

Uh and he then# you know made clear he wasn't going to basically## uh bow down just because they have made this# ruling.

He by the end of the day he'd already## put out a new order trying to reimpose tariffs# under a different legal authority.

Um so he said## today that um because he couldn't use that legal# authority he would impose 10% tariffs on countries## around the world using different authorities.

He# actually took to Truth Social around the same time## that he was at the podium you know a post through# his account and he said this was an important case## to me more as a symbol of economic and national# security than anything else.

The good news is that## there are methods, practices, statutes, and other# authorities as recognized by the entire court in## Congress and even uh and are even stronger than# the AIPA tariffs available to me as president of## the United States.

So Susan, obviously he's# looking for workarounds here.

Yeah.

I mean,## the Supreme Court was very clear uh that's# not how our system is supposed to work.

And## I think that's really powerful.

You read these# decisions.

You know what's supposed to happen## in a situation like this?

The Supreme Court told# the president of the United States very clearly,## if you want these tariffs, get Congress to# pass a law to uh issue these tariffs.

Donald## Trump has ruled out doing that.

And of course, he# doesn't actually have the votes even though it's a## Republican controlled House and a Republican# controlled Senate.

He's trying to bypass## uh the way our system is supposed to work.

And# I think it's really notable here that one of the## justices who concurred in the majority opinion,# uh Justice Cors, as you mentioned, he's a Trump## appointee.

He's a real conservative.

He's ruled# against uh you know many many many uh beloved## issues of of liberals.

And yet what he wrote# in his uh concurrence is something that you're## seeing passed around Washington today a lot.

He# said essentially if you bypass Congress and the## system is not supposed to work so that one man has# this much power.

I I mean talk to me also about## um the way that the president has used this as# basically a central tool in dealing with countries## allies and adversaries alike.

You know imposing# tariffs on India because it was buying Russian## oil and for other reasons as well.

Um imposing it# on European allies because he wanted to compete## on steel and aluminum.

I mean it's sweeping.

How# are you what are you hearing from sources abroad## about how a this the Supreme Court ruling has# been received but also how President Trump has## conducted himself through his economic agenda?# That's exactly right.

This is a pillar of how he## was using his arrandisement and his aggressive# view of the powers the sweeping powers of the## American presidency to rewrite international# diplomacy which for Donald Trump is very much## about economics anyways.

You know, Europeans are# already so terrified about the unraveling of our## decadesl long alliance, you know, that there# was real questions as recently as last weekend,## the Munich Security Conference, uh, you know,# is this an alliance where the United States has## gone so far off the rails.

Are there checks and# balances left in the system?

And I think there'll## be a little bit of relief that okay, it seems# that the Supreme Court is still at a certain## point willing to step in and check and balance.# But the fact that Trump immediately then is trying## to circumvent the Supreme Court's ruling.

And# let's be clear, that's what he's doing.

He is## trying to circumvent the court's ruling and# that's going to unleash a whole new wave of## uncertainty in the economic markets.

It creates# uh turmoil by the way that is affecting not just## the United States but other countries around# the world that we're connected to.

So again,## it's a sign of Donald Trump's chaos affecting not# just Americans, but people all over the world.## It's not really just a question of circumventing# um the court's ruling, right, Lisa?

Like we've## we've seen a a a significant significant# reasons to be concerned about the erosion of## the independence of the judiciary.

I mean, just# this week, we saw a huge banner with President## Trump's picture on it go up outside the Department# of Justice, which is pretty astonishing.

So today,## you know, we were just saying President Trump# called justices Neil Neil Gorsuch and Amy Coney## Barrett, two of the justices he nominated in his# first term, an embarrassment to their families.## He said they were making a big mistake.

You cover# the Hill.

You know, how are these attacks being## received particularly among Republicans who do# believe in essence of the independence of the## judiciary and other branches?

somewhere in Fitbit# headquarters, they are noticing heart rates going## up among Republicans wearing those watches.

Um, I# think that Republicans right now um are concerned## about their ability not just to hold the House,# but really to have even a close margin in the## House because things are not going the way they# need Trump to be.

Charming Trump, not angry Trump.## We'll get into that at the State of the Union.

But# when it comes to tariffs, Susan mentioned that our## allies are terrified about what this means, the# unraveling of like the European alliances.

I think## a lot of Republicans on the Hill are terrified of# a potential tariff vote if the president decides## he does want to go to the Hill with this and# what that would mean for the unraveling of## the very tricky MAGA moderate alliance of voters# that they all need.

And they don't want to take## those tariff votes.

The House and Senate have# both passed bills opposing tariffs in the past,## but it hasn't led to serious consequences.

But are# they ready for that kind of a fight with Trump,## especially for an issue that's so near and dear# to his heart?

No.

It would be a very difficult## vote for most Republicans.

But I'll tell you# who would love it, Democrats.

They are ready## for this.

Let's talk about tariffs.

As much as we# want to talk about how they say he's failing on## inflation and failing on prices, they think this# is a good example of an economic agenda failing.## and Republicans have to figure out their message.# Okay.

So, Eugene, in 2025, economic growth slowed## compared to the year before.

And economists say# it was largely driven by President Trump's tariffs## as well as the government shutdown that we saw in# the fall.

Many economists believe that tariffs are## hurting the country.

Many people in states that# backed Trump overwhelmingly are being are feeling## the pain of these tariffs.

So why is President# Trump so dedicated to still comm or why is he## so committed to this policy?

He has been obsessed# with the idea of terrorists forever, right?

When## he was a businessman in New York City, that was# something he talked about a lot.

Interestingly## enough, it is why he believes like Japan is such# a powerhouse because of tariffs.

He sees it as## this kind of ability and tool and he's used it# as Susan was talking about as a cudel against## both your enemies and your allies.

And that's why# when people are when I talk to Republicans, I'm## sure you have too, who are like, if the Supreme# Court will just get rid of this these tariffs,## everything will be fine.

Well, maybe we won't get# Yeah, we can move on.

That is not what's going to## happen.

It was never what was going to happen.# Donald Trump truly believes that this is a way## to do um e economics.

And when you look at his# kind of economic plan, he this is kind of it,## right?

Like there hasn't been other bills that# he's been trying to pass.

They passed the one## reconciliation bill.

They keep talking about maybe# they're working on something else, but there's no## real movement on that.

They would say tax cuts# is right.

Exactly.

Keep extending the tax cuts.## They'd say, right?

So give more money to wealthy# corporations and individuals uh and make every## day people pay more money.

I thought it was very# interesting on the politics today that you had JB## Pritzkar, the governor of Illinois, sending Donald# Trump, it was almost a Trumpian like gesture,## right?

He sent him an invoice.

He said, "Okay,# I'd like you to pay back the people of my state## uh for all the money that they had to pay extra# for goods and services uh uh as a result last year## of your tariffs."

Because the politics of this is# on Democrat side.

Like when you look at how voters## think about tariffs, they don't like tariffs.# It's not Republicans don't like tariffs.

Democrats## don't like tariffs.

Independents don't like the# concept of tariffs because they understand that## the connection between their prices going up and# President Trump signing these executive orders.## But President Trump always says short-term# pain, long-term gain.

You know, that's kind of## his mantra on the campaign trail.

But, you know,# don't think like that.

They have bills.